Astaroth Q&A/Discussion Thread

MystSilver said:
So, Asta mains, does this actually work?

After Pyrrha's 236:B is blocked, you can punish with 4B, then get a mid/grab mixup. Command grab will get her AA before it's stuffed and 4B will stuff her 2A. She can backstep to avoid the 4B but the grab will get her.

Am I missing something?
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That is if you're 4B is in range to punish. This is all situational. However, yeah, usually 4B on HIT can work like that.

SatanaXXX said:
Asta is good, but sadly in SC V many faster characters (Natsu, Maxi, Cervantes, Mitsu etc...) deal the same damage... that's pretty unfair to our beloved Golem.

I hope the next patch will tone down some characters damage output. And no, not Asta's plz :)
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Astaroth VS Maxi is actually an inclined battle for Maxi. Once you learn how to fight Maxi, where to interrupt him, recognition of his lows, then he's forced to rely on 50/50 mix ups, and there's only one option he has to deal heavy damage. Astaroth can space Maxi out, and bullrush > Maxi.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Natsu VS Astaroth match up. Cervantes, he's got the advantage, but it's not exactly because of his speed. It's because Cervantes is much like Astaroth, in a sense. Mid range, step kills, grabs. He's got a great punisher, and he is a bit faster... But the match up can be played. As for Mitsurugi, he's perfect to fight Astaroth. Thatt's an inclined battle for Ast users.
 
ShinJin said:
i know a few other people have said this but i gotta be jumping on the badwagon of "asta is good but to win tourneys you're gonna need a top tier main".

throw or 4b just isint enough damage when yoshi can kill you dead in 2 CE's and cervy and natsu have mid screen 50%'s with 1 bar or less.
right now i'm looking at cervy.
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So far, I disagree. Astaroth's not God tier but he can hang if you play him well. However, playing him well can be harder than with the faster characters. You need:

1. Excellent spacing. You HAVE to be proficient at his three ranges: long range, at the tip of his A+B; mid range, at A / 44A range (his primary range); and short range, right in their face. You need to constantly pressure at mid range and know when to run into close range for throw attempts or bull rush in for high counters or to increase spacing. You cannot whiff at mid-range. Doing so lets your opponent in, often with free damage.

2. Excellent terrain control. Every single attack should steer towards a wall or edge. Only do otherwise if you're going to get great damage or if you're playing a mind game. If you're on an infinite stage in a tournament, change stages ASAP. Asta has all the tools to control the ring - use them.

3. Excellent reading / mind games. If you can't outplay your opponent in the throw guessing game, you lose. You need his command throws and low grabs to win. They do great damage, and can RO / W! in various ways. If you can train your opponent to fear throws and force him into a regular / low throw mixups, you're in great shape. You also have to predict high attacks so you can bull rush through them.

4. Excellent defense, judgement, and patience. This is the hardest of all Asta's necessary skills. You HAVE to know every single character matchup. At close range, fast characters can pressure Asta easily, so you have to be able to block mixups, and you have to know when you can interrupt to get some breathing room. Asta doesn't have a "panic button" to interrupt flow and regain momentum, so all you can do is wait for an opportunity to counterattack or throw. This means understanding every attack for every character.

5. Excellent pressure. This is Asta's raison d'être. Pressure with smart attacks at mid and long range. Pressure with guard breaks and force guard bursts. Pressure with throw mixups. Pressure with terrain control; get them near a wall or edge. Pressure with oki, esp. using 1A_B+G and guard breaks as they stand. Control the flow of the match. Astaroth is great at slowing the pace down; this is frustrating for faster characters, and frustration leads to mistakes. Often it's worth giving up bigger damage for increased frustration, e.g. following up a 6K CH with a 1A_B+G instead of a 44B.

I doubt I've said anything you don't already know. But, my point is that Asta seems easy to use, but he's actually very difficult at high level play. I think you can be successful with him, but it's a very different and much more deliberate style of play than the faster characters. Work hard and you'll succeed.
 
We should practice and level up our game instead of crying about Astaroth....after a loss everybody has to think about what he did wrong and how could he play better, not asking for nerfs/buffs stupidly complaining about the character (who is already good).

Nice post @Srayer
 
Srayer said:
So far, I disagree. Astaroth's not God tier but he can hang if you play him well. However, playing him well can be harder than with the faster characters. You need:

1. Excellent spacing. You HAVE to be proficient at his three ranges: long range, at the tip of his A+B; mid range, at A / 44A range (his primary range); and short range, right in their face. You need to constantly pressure at mid range and know when to run into close range for throw attempts or bull rush in for high counters or to increase spacing. You cannot whiff at mid-range. Doing so lets your opponent in, often with free damage.

2. Excellent terrain control. Every single attack should steer towards a wall or edge. Only do otherwise if you're going to get great damage or if you're playing a mind game. If you're on an infinite stage in a tournament, change stages ASAP. Asta has all the tools to control the ring - use them.

3. Excellent reading / mind games. If you can't outplay your opponent in the throw guessing game, you lose. You need his command throws and low grabs to win. They do great damage, and can RO / W! in various ways. If you can train your opponent to fear throws and force him into a regular / low throw mixups, you're in great shape. You also have to predict high attacks so you can bull rush through them.

4. Excellent defense, judgement, and patience. This is the hardest of all Asta's necessary skills. You HAVE to know every single character matchup. At close range, fast characters can pressure Asta easily, so you have to be able to block mixups, and you have to know when you can interrupt to get some breathing room. Asta doesn't have a "panic button" to interrupt flow and regain momentum, so all you can do is wait for an opportunity to counterattack or throw. This means understanding every attack for every character.

5. Excellent pressure. This is Asta's raison d'être. Pressure with smart attacks at mid and long range. Pressure with guard breaks and force guard bursts. Pressure with throw mixups. Pressure with terrain control; get them near a wall or edge. Pressure with oki, esp. using 1A_B+G and guard breaks as they stand. Control the flow of the match. Astaroth is great at slowing the pace down; this is frustrating for faster characters, and frustration leads to mistakes. Often it's worth giving up bigger damage for increased frustration, e.g. following up a 6K CH with a 1A_B+G instead of a 44B.

I doubt I've said anything you don't already know. But, my point is that Asta seems easy to use, but he's actually very difficult at high level play. I think you can be successful with him, but it's a very different and much more deliberate style of play than the faster characters. Work hard and you'll succeed.
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I have to agree with everything in said post. The last bit, especially. Astaroth's "ease of use" is quite easy... for the casual player. He's tournament viable (at least as of now) but, like Srayer explained, to be winning with him in high level play- you're going to need to put in a lot of work with Astaroth, compared to a lot of other characters.

Astaroth is the character who has really good match ups, and really difficult one's as well. There's really no middle ground.
 
having to put in more work then somone else to win is the definition of "not as good as".

you write these long posts about how good astaroth is then at the end you write "to be winning with him in high level play- you're going to need to put in a lot of work with Astaroth, compared to a lot of other characters."

why wouldn't you put the same work in to cervy that you wouldhave asta and completly rape face instead of just rape face a little bit?.
 
I wanna main Asta since he fits my style, but I'm definitely starting to feel like a lot of the other characters have a lot easier time... I was actually looking at Cervy myself.

I think it would be fine if they just toned down the damage on some of the faster characters. I still think Astaroth is capable of dishing out the most damage though. Maybe not the easiest, but he has so many ways to deal at least 40%.
 
cervanties is so good they didn't even bother giving him a low attack, they just gave him a few unblockables, a few svage mids and savage highs and said have fun.
 
Srayer is right indeed.

All those things are true even in SC V, but now some old slow-ass moves are useful, thanks to the guard crush system and consequent rape-combos.

Few questions for you guys, since I still didn't have the time to test this stuff properly:
- CH WS K, I found as best guaranteed damage 3B. Any better ideas?
- Blocked Mitus's 2K, B: what's the best guaranteed punishment? Pre patch 3B seemed to do the job, now it doesn't work. Don't tell me I have to resign to 66B, that's horrible damage and negative hitstun.
- command G+B, 22B BE, 66K BE. Is this combo worth the bar expense?
- close to the wall: guard crush, I do 6B, 22K, 22B BE, G+A... then? What's your favourite, guaranteed finisher? I tried 1B, B, low throw or 6K, 1G+B_G+A, but I'm sure there's something better.

Last but not least: is the frame data found in this section correct? It says that both 4B and 66B are i16, but I cant punish -16 moves with 66B.
 
- command G+B, 22B BE, 66K BE. Is this combo worth the bar expense?

If it's for the kill I'll spend all the meter possible. If it's just for kicks? No, I wouldn't say so. I believe you can tack on another 66K BE after the first as long as they don't tech. Of course, you can also add 2A after either as well. (If they don't tech, I think)

- close to the wall: guard crush, I do 6B, 22K, 22B BE, G+A... then? What's your favourite, guaranteed finisher? I tried 1B, B, low throw or 6K, 1G+B_G+A, but I'm sure there's something better.
If I need guaranteed damage I'll do 3A+B into 1A, A. If I want more mixups then there's 1B, B and I avoid the free crouch throw setup and use the +13 for a Grab/B6B mixup instead.
 
SatanaXXX said:
- close to the wall: guard crush, I do 6B, 22K, 22B BE, G+A... then? What's your favourite, guaranteed finisher? I tried 1B, B, low throw or 6K, 1G+B_G+A, but I'm sure there's something better.
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This is my favorite one, but there are many variations.

6B, 22_88K, 22_88B BE, A+G, 3KA, 3A+B, 2A+G, 1A+G/B+G

* Are you from Italy???
 
ShinJin said:
having to put in more work then somone else to win is the definition of "not as good as".

you write these long posts about how good astaroth is then at the end you write "to be winning with him in high level play- you're going to need to put in a lot of work with Astaroth, compared to a lot of other characters."

why wouldn't you put the same work in to cervy that you wouldhave asta and completly rape face instead of just rape face a little bit?.
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No, I'm afraid you're conflating "as good as" with "as easy as". Cake from scratch is as good as cake from a box (actually, it's better), but it's not as easy to make. That doesn't mean you should never make a cake from scratch.

If you want the path of least resistance, then quit Astaroth right now and jump on the Cervy bandwagon. However, Astaroth has the potential to play on equal ground against him and other characters - and that is the true definition of "as good as".
 
Stanman said:
- command G+B, 22B BE, 66K BE. Is this combo worth the bar expense?

If it's for the kill I'll spend all the meter possible. If it's just for kicks? No, I wouldn't say so.
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Totally agree with this, but I'll also do it sometimes if it will drive them to an edge or against a wall. It pushes much further back than either 66B or A+G.
 
SatanaXXX said:
Srayer is right indeed.

All those things are true even in SC V, but now some old slow-ass moves are useful, thanks to the guard crush system and consequent rape-combos.

Few questions for you guys, since I still didn't have the time to test this stuff properly:
- CH WS K, I found as best guaranteed damage 3B. Any better ideas?
- Blocked Mitus's 2K, B: what's the best guaranteed punishment? Pre patch 3B seemed to do the job, now it doesn't work. Don't tell me I have to resign to 66B, that's horrible damage and negative hitstun.
- command G+B, 22B BE, 66K BE. Is this combo worth the bar expense?
- close to the wall: guard crush, I do 6B, 22K, 22B BE, G+A... then? What's your favourite, guaranteed finisher? I tried 1B, B, low throw or 6K, 1G+B_G+A, but I'm sure there's something better.

Last but not least: is the frame data found in this section correct? It says that both 4B and 66B are i16, but I cant punish -16 moves with 66B.
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Hey SatanaXXX !

1)CH WS K, I couldnt find much either :/

2)For Mitsu 2KB the best thing to do is JG the B, then 66A,B to punish for 58. It's sound complicated but really it's not that hard with training. Worth praticing IMO for Astaroth.

3)The whole combo end with 2A by the way, and it's good to finish off the guy for good or push around the ring. It's half-life anywhere on the ring, so it's pretty powerful even if a bit expensive for the meter.

4)After the first !W in the guard crush I do 3KA !w 1BB then a lot of tricks and midngames haha. 3KA !w 3KA can be fun too in some situations, with some 44B tricks.

At last, 66B is i17 afaik !
 
Saitoh said:
Hey SatanaXXX !


4)After the first !W in the guard crush I do 3KA !w 1BB then a lot of tricks and midngames haha. 3KA !w 3KA can be fun too in some situations, with some 44B tricks.

At last, 66B is i17 afaik !
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Hey there! I hope you still playin' the sweet Golem, I saw some Maxi cheapness down in Cannes :)

Thanks for the answers.
For the wall combos: I totally forgot 3K, A, you're right, it's golden. I'll do some experiments.

I recently discovered that Asta's CE can be ducked with instant tech crouch moves even after the animation... this makes it totally useless.

Whatever, let's whore some BE.
 
How do you guys feel about 3A and 3A+B? I them some up close to catch step, since they are just as fast as 4A (3A is one frame slower) but mid, and I've been having trouble with Pyrrah especially 236ing under my 4A attempts.

3A I feel is sightly better of the two. A little more ranged, and isn't as unsafe (it's still -12, so punishable to some). On hit it's neutral, but CH gets you a free 4B for 41 dmg guaranteed and leaves grounded, 49 if they tech and good +f. 1A_B+G ground throw is also free, though can miss off-axis sometimes. You also get 6K and 66K tech traps as well, which become useful at the wall. Crouch grab can tech trap too, but you have to slightly delay.

3A+B is shorter ranged, -17 on block (though with some pushback), pushback on hit, Stun on CH. Free 44B for 52 dmg or crouch throw attempt. You can tech trap with a slightly delayed PT for 118. 3A+B seems a little risky, but if you know they're probably going to tech into PT, might be worth it once.


Also, I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but after B+K hit, if they do anything other than duck, a command grab will back throw them. This includes holding G to attempt to turn around and block. There are a few exceptions with some BT moves (another Asta can BT B+K you, which I believe is an instant TC), but by and large it works reliably. If they do duck, 6K_4B_66K_BB6 all hit for significant +f. On block it puts them right in your face, but it's only -6 so you have time to outguess them and step_TC_TJ_GI.
 
one thing to note is that you can do a step command grab (66A+G/B+G) after a normal hit 3A+B. catches a lot of people off guard.
 
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