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Ring
Lay still now
Yeah, I just tested it on Mitsu and it works everytime but it doesn't work on Ivy for some reason.
I wonder, does it mean that 6B8 is i12 in SCV?
Ivy Frame Data discussion
- Thread starter Ring
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I wonder, does it mean that 6B8 is i12 in SCV?
kerrod123
[10] Knight
how fast is her CE? because i heard some CEs are i12
maybe you could pull of her CE sometimes after adv
maybe you could pull of her CE sometimes after adv
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Ring
Lay still now
I don't have the frame data yet, but it looks more or less like this:
1B BE - i14
6B8 BE - i13
66B BE - i16
22B BE - ~i20
A+G, BE - i17
CE - also around i20, it's almost useless compared to other CE's in the game
In a nutshell the Brave Edge does not increase the speed of a move. It just gives it different properties on block and hit.
1B BE - i14
6B8 BE - i13
66B BE - i16
22B BE - ~i20
A+G, BE - i17
CE - also around i20, it's almost useless compared to other CE's in the game
In a nutshell the Brave Edge does not increase the speed of a move. It just gives it different properties on block and hit.
Rezildur
[09] Warrior
Yeah her CE startup is sooooo fucking slow.
kerrod123
[10] Knight
ok i actually meant to say her CE but youve listed that,its kinda slow but is it still hard to duck on reaction? since it freezes the screen you cant really react to it unless you predict it and duck right?
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
Yes
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Ring
Lay still now
I think her CE is really bad because when she raises her hand it glows blue, it's easy to notice and duck it. Even if they don't duck, the range of this CE is really pathetic. Astaroth has a similar CE but the startup is well hidden and range bigger...
Other CE's are so much better. They are around i10~12, always have priority and can be used as punishing/frame traps for tons of damage.I don't see much use for Ivy's CE right now except as a guaranteed punishment post GI.
I'm afraid we are stuck with a useless CE that in a few months will only work on n00bs ;)
Other CE's are so much better. They are around i10~12, always have priority and can be used as punishing/frame traps for tons of damage.I don't see much use for Ivy's CE right now except as a guaranteed punishment post GI.
I'm afraid we are stuck with a useless CE that in a few months will only work on n00bs ;)
Sora
[11] Champion
Or post JG. :)
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- #29
Ring
Lay still now
Yeah, but that also depends on the move. We do not have the data for JG yet (each JGed move gives you different frames)
C4LAMITY
[08] Mercenary
What is Ivy's fastest move? Not sure which move to use for punishing...
KineticClash
[10] Knight
Speaking of JGs. Ivy can get 40 free damage on Pyrrha by JGing the second hit in her BB and punishing it with 6B8K. Just to put some perspective on how fast 6B8 is.
K0rN_b4LL
[14] Master
To clarify when you say i# are you reffering to the number of frames it takes from activation to the hit?
Sora
[11] Champion
Bought the guide. Will be posting her frame data tonight.
Sora
[11] Champion
ANND here we go. I'll take this one chunk at a time... easier on me that way. :) Just watch for edits on this post. I will post when the list is complete.
Format: Move, Impact Frames, Block Frames, Hit Frames (no CH frames), Notes
Standing Horizontal Moves
A - i13, -8, 2
AA - i13, -6, 6
[ A ] - i17, -15, -5, Opp BT on Hit
6A - i17, -8, 2
6AK - i17, -2, KND
6[ A ] - i21, -18, -8/AT on CH
3A - i19, -6, STN
3[ A ] - i22, -18, -2
2A - i13, -6, 8
1A - i23, -16, -4, CH -2
4A, i21, -8, 2, STN on CH, TC, Guard Burst 13
214A , i56, UB, TC
Self-notes: Nothing out of the ordinary here except that 4A TC's now apparently. I don't think it did so in SC4. The guide pins it as a really good move for Ivy especially when fishing for a CH... for me, I reserve my judgement.
And yes, avoid 3 [ A ] like the plague. Such a good move in SC4.... you shall be missed.
Standing Vertical Moves
B - i15, -8, 2
BB - i15, -6, 4
[ B ] - i15, -20, -10, Guard Burst 8, Opp FC on hit
bK - i18, -16, KND on CH (no frames for hit here, guide screwed up)
6B - i18, -6, 4, Guard Burst 14, TC
6b8 - i12, -19, -8, Tip range/Late Hit: -2 on Block, +9 on hit
(6B8 air AT has a Clean Hit C probability)
6B8K - i12, -12, 2
6[ B ] - i24, -15, -6, TC
6 [ B ]2_8 - i24, -28, -16, NC on CH
3B - i18, -10, LNC, Guard Burst 13, TS
2B - i16, -8, 2
1B - i16, -8, 2
4B - i11, -6, 4
214B - i20, -14, -4, TS, TC, NC
Self notes: B has Ivy's best moves, no doubt.
BB has reaaaallly good frames now and is a decent pressure tool.
6B8 has a weird property where it can hit late at tip and have different frames.
4B is officially Ivy's fastest move at i11. Good frames on this as well.
6B remains as a really good move. At Guard Burst 14 and i18, it's the best speed-guard burst ratio that Ivy has. The fact that it TC's is just icing on the cake.
The is no reason to do 6[ B ]2_8 anymore unless you're in tip range or fishing for the KO. I don't get why they butchered this move, but its simply horrible now. Sad, really.
3B Tech Step seems interesting. If it can tech step enough, I can see good CH opportunities with it.
214B is much safer now on block. -14 means you'll most likely get hit by AA only from most characters. The notable exception here is Pyrrha, who has i14 on her 236B:6. For its solid tech step (TS) and its use at disadvantage, its a definite improvement over its SC4 version.
And we now enter new terminology. Only certain moves have a chance of triggering Clean Hit. Each move also has a different probability of triggering it, the actual probability being unknown. C has the lowest, while A has the highest.
Standing K
K - i13, -8, 2
6KB - i14, -11, -8
6KBK - i14, -11, 2
(oddly enough, guide missed the frames on just 6K)
3K - i14, -6, 6
3K (charge) - i32, 3, STN, Guard Burst 9, charge can be let go at any time
2K - i15, -14, -2
1K - i24, -20, KND, STC (c/o Ring)
4K - i18, -12, 3 STN on CH, can RO, Guard Burst 14, TC (c/o Ring)
Self Notes: Not much to say here too. I don't know how practical 3K charge now is given that it can stun on NH (but is an i32).
1K is unsafe as all hell -- given the combo does only 40 damage, use sparingly and in good risk/reward situations. Otherwise, it's simply faster to throw.
6K is probably her best K move at this point. Too bad its hard/impossible to hit confirm to CH 6KB.
A+B Attacks
A+BA - i20, 4, *-10, TJ, NC
I am almost positive the -10 is a typo here and it should be +10. Also, the block frames may also be a typo as well (likely -4) but might be worth checking into.
6A+B - i75, UB
2A+B - i19, -10, KND, Guard Burst 12, LNC on CH, Clean Hit C, Force crouch on block
1A+B - i32, -12, STN
8A+BB - i22, -20, KND, Guard Burst 12, RO, TJ
8A+B[ B ] - i22, -28**, STN, RO, TJ
4A+B,B - i28, -1 or -22 (depending if B is pressed after 4A+B), 8 or KND, Guard Burst 6, aGI's all mid horizontals, RO
Self Notes: If someone can check to A+BA actual frames that'd be great. I'm pretty sure I'm correct, but you never know.
2A+B isn't as bad as I thought it was, personally. i19 sucks, but given that it KND's, relatively safe on block and can fish for CH (although you probably won't get it) to combo damage, it's a decent tool to use. The fact that it OTG's also helps its case too.
I wouldn't let 8A+B[ B ]'s frames fool you just yet -- this move has some very decent pushback and may make it pseudo safe. However, this move no longer TC's, only TJ's, which sucks.
4A+B by itself seems to be really decent in terms of frames. 4A+B on block -> 4B makes a pseudo i12 frame trap that most AA's won't be able to beat.
B+K Attacks
B+K - i35, -2, LNC, Guard Burst 7, RO
6B+K (hit) - i29, -2, KND, Guard Burst 9
6B+K (throw) i29, -2, 4, Guard Burst 9, Opp BT'ed
6[B+K] (throw) - i29, -11, +10, Guard Burst 9
1_2_3 B+K - i26, -10, STN, RO
7_8_9 B+K - i29, -29, STN, 11, NC, LNC CH
4B+K - i75, UB
Self notes: Not much here. I just miss the 7_8_9 B+K relaunches mid combo. Hope someone can find something...
Format: Move, Impact Frames, Block Frames, Hit Frames (no CH frames), Notes
Standing Horizontal Moves
A - i13, -8, 2
AA - i13, -6, 6
[ A ] - i17, -15, -5, Opp BT on Hit
6A - i17, -8, 2
6AK - i17, -2, KND
6[ A ] - i21, -18, -8/AT on CH
3A - i19, -6, STN
3[ A ] - i22, -18, -2
2A - i13, -6, 8
1A - i23, -16, -4, CH -2
4A, i21, -8, 2, STN on CH, TC, Guard Burst 13
214A , i56, UB, TC
Self-notes: Nothing out of the ordinary here except that 4A TC's now apparently. I don't think it did so in SC4. The guide pins it as a really good move for Ivy especially when fishing for a CH... for me, I reserve my judgement.
And yes, avoid 3 [ A ] like the plague. Such a good move in SC4.... you shall be missed.
Standing Vertical Moves
B - i15, -8, 2
BB - i15, -6, 4
[ B ] - i15, -20, -10, Guard Burst 8, Opp FC on hit
bK - i18, -16, KND on CH (no frames for hit here, guide screwed up)
6B - i18, -6, 4, Guard Burst 14, TC
6b8 - i12, -19, -8, Tip range/Late Hit: -2 on Block, +9 on hit
(6B8 air AT has a Clean Hit C probability)
6B8K - i12, -12, 2
6[ B ] - i24, -15, -6, TC
6 [ B ]2_8 - i24, -28, -16, NC on CH
3B - i18, -10, LNC, Guard Burst 13, TS
2B - i16, -8, 2
1B - i16, -8, 2
4B - i11, -6, 4
214B - i20, -14, -4, TS, TC, NC
Self notes: B has Ivy's best moves, no doubt.
BB has reaaaallly good frames now and is a decent pressure tool.
6B8 has a weird property where it can hit late at tip and have different frames.
4B is officially Ivy's fastest move at i11. Good frames on this as well.
6B remains as a really good move. At Guard Burst 14 and i18, it's the best speed-guard burst ratio that Ivy has. The fact that it TC's is just icing on the cake.
The is no reason to do 6[ B ]2_8 anymore unless you're in tip range or fishing for the KO. I don't get why they butchered this move, but its simply horrible now. Sad, really.
3B Tech Step seems interesting. If it can tech step enough, I can see good CH opportunities with it.
214B is much safer now on block. -14 means you'll most likely get hit by AA only from most characters. The notable exception here is Pyrrha, who has i14 on her 236B:6. For its solid tech step (TS) and its use at disadvantage, its a definite improvement over its SC4 version.
And we now enter new terminology. Only certain moves have a chance of triggering Clean Hit. Each move also has a different probability of triggering it, the actual probability being unknown. C has the lowest, while A has the highest.
Standing K
K - i13, -8, 2
6KB - i14, -11, -8
6KBK - i14, -11, 2
(oddly enough, guide missed the frames on just 6K)
3K - i14, -6, 6
3K (charge) - i32, 3, STN, Guard Burst 9, charge can be let go at any time
2K - i15, -14, -2
1K - i24, -20, KND, STC (c/o Ring)
4K - i18, -12, 3 STN on CH, can RO, Guard Burst 14, TC (c/o Ring)
Self Notes: Not much to say here too. I don't know how practical 3K charge now is given that it can stun on NH (but is an i32).
1K is unsafe as all hell -- given the combo does only 40 damage, use sparingly and in good risk/reward situations. Otherwise, it's simply faster to throw.
6K is probably her best K move at this point. Too bad its hard/impossible to hit confirm to CH 6KB.
A+B Attacks
A+BA - i20, 4, *-10, TJ, NC
I am almost positive the -10 is a typo here and it should be +10. Also, the block frames may also be a typo as well (likely -4) but might be worth checking into.
6A+B - i75, UB
2A+B - i19, -10, KND, Guard Burst 12, LNC on CH, Clean Hit C, Force crouch on block
1A+B - i32, -12, STN
8A+BB - i22, -20, KND, Guard Burst 12, RO, TJ
8A+B[ B ] - i22, -28**, STN, RO, TJ
4A+B,B - i28, -1 or -22 (depending if B is pressed after 4A+B), 8 or KND, Guard Burst 6, aGI's all mid horizontals, RO
Self Notes: If someone can check to A+BA actual frames that'd be great. I'm pretty sure I'm correct, but you never know.
2A+B isn't as bad as I thought it was, personally. i19 sucks, but given that it KND's, relatively safe on block and can fish for CH (although you probably won't get it) to combo damage, it's a decent tool to use. The fact that it OTG's also helps its case too.
I wouldn't let 8A+B[ B ]'s frames fool you just yet -- this move has some very decent pushback and may make it pseudo safe. However, this move no longer TC's, only TJ's, which sucks.
4A+B by itself seems to be really decent in terms of frames. 4A+B on block -> 4B makes a pseudo i12 frame trap that most AA's won't be able to beat.
B+K Attacks
B+K - i35, -2, LNC, Guard Burst 7, RO
6B+K (hit) - i29, -2, KND, Guard Burst 9
6B+K (throw) i29, -2, 4, Guard Burst 9, Opp BT'ed
6[B+K] (throw) - i29, -11, +10, Guard Burst 9
1_2_3 B+K - i26, -10, STN, RO
7_8_9 B+K - i29, -29, STN, 11, NC, LNC CH
4B+K - i75, UB
Self notes: Not much here. I just miss the 7_8_9 B+K relaunches mid combo. Hope someone can find something...
Sora
[11] Champion
Full Crouch Attacks
FC A - i12, -6, 8
FC B - i15, -8, 2
FC 1B - i17, -12, KND, Guard Burst 11, LNC (behind), RO
FC 1[ B ]B - i19, -14 (or whiff if the second B is pressed), KND, LNC, Guard Burst 13, NC
FC K - i14, -14, -2
Self Notes: FC 1B is the godsend move as people have been saying. Not sure if FC 1B, BT K, 6b8 is a guaranteed combo this time around (I have landed it before), so someone should test that out. Guide does list FC 1B, G, 6b8 as guaranteed though.
While Rising Attacks
WR A - i17, -8, 3
WR [ A ] - i25, -16, -3, Opp forced BT, Guard Burst 16
WR B - i19, 10, -9, Guard Burst 13 - no, this is not a typo. It says +10 on block, -9 on hit.
WR K - i14, -7, 6
WR A+BA - i19, -10 (or -3 if high is blocked), 1 (or KND if high hits), NC on CH, RO
WR B+K - i20, -13, -5, aGI's all, NC
Self Notes: Someone check WR B. The guide might be screwing with me, but if this is indeed the case, this just threw a mindf*** into Ivy's gameplan of frames.
WR A+B... is that hit confirmable? I don't remember.
WR [ A ]... no reason to do this move other than tip range.
8 Way Run Moves
99_66_33A - i18, -8, KND, Guard Burst 13.
99_66_33[A] - i23, -16, 0, Guard Burst 10, NC
22_88A - i26, -12, 0, Guard Burst 11, STN on CH
11_77A - i39, -18, KND, Guard Burst 13, Attack Throw
44A - i24, -8, 3, Guard Burst 15
44[A] - i29, -23, -6 (8 or KND if lands as an AT)
same frames regardless of followup
99_66_33B - i17, -6, 8, Guard Burst 13
22_88B - i16, -6, KND, Guard Burst 12
22_88[ B ]BBB - i16, -16, LNC -> KND, Guard Burst 5, NC, Opp forced FC on block
22_88[ B ]B.B.B.B.B - i16, -16, LNC -> KND, Guard Burst 5, NC, Opp forced FC on Block, BA (Guard Break/Break Attacks), Clean Hit A
11_77B - i29, -6, KND
44BBB - i42, -2 (or whiff after first B), LNC, Guard Burst 6, TJ, NC
99_66_33K - i16, -6, KND, RO
22_88K - i24, -20, KND, STC
77_44_11K - i28, -18, KND, Forced Ground, TJ
44A+B - i47, -14, KND, Guard Burst 10, RO
44[A+B] - i71, UB, RO
44B+K - i38, UB, LNC, G cancellable
B During 44B+K - n/a, -14, KND, LNC on CH
Slide - i21, -22, KND, RO, TJ
Self Notes: Wow. I didn't think 22_88 [ B ] was just as fast as its non-held counterpart. Can someone check this, as I always felt that 22_88 [ B ] was far slower. If they are the same though, we just found an i16 75 damage punish (just version), that has the highest probability of clean hit. Not a bad risk reward for -16 on block. I'm pretty sure the BA at the end has +frames on block (I believe +12?) Again, someone can check.
FC A - i12, -6, 8
FC B - i15, -8, 2
FC 1B - i17, -12, KND, Guard Burst 11, LNC (behind), RO
FC 1[ B ]B - i19, -14 (or whiff if the second B is pressed), KND, LNC, Guard Burst 13, NC
FC K - i14, -14, -2
Self Notes: FC 1B is the godsend move as people have been saying. Not sure if FC 1B, BT K, 6b8 is a guaranteed combo this time around (I have landed it before), so someone should test that out. Guide does list FC 1B, G, 6b8 as guaranteed though.
While Rising Attacks
WR A - i17, -8, 3
WR [ A ] - i25, -16, -3, Opp forced BT, Guard Burst 16
WR B - i19, 10, -9, Guard Burst 13 - no, this is not a typo. It says +10 on block, -9 on hit.
WR K - i14, -7, 6
WR A+BA - i19, -10 (or -3 if high is blocked), 1 (or KND if high hits), NC on CH, RO
WR B+K - i20, -13, -5, aGI's all, NC
Self Notes: Someone check WR B. The guide might be screwing with me, but if this is indeed the case, this just threw a mindf*** into Ivy's gameplan of frames.
WR A+B... is that hit confirmable? I don't remember.
WR [ A ]... no reason to do this move other than tip range.
8 Way Run Moves
99_66_33A - i18, -8, KND, Guard Burst 13.
99_66_33[A] - i23, -16, 0, Guard Burst 10, NC
22_88A - i26, -12, 0, Guard Burst 11, STN on CH
11_77A - i39, -18, KND, Guard Burst 13, Attack Throw
44A - i24, -8, 3, Guard Burst 15
44[A] - i29, -23, -6 (8 or KND if lands as an AT)
same frames regardless of followup
99_66_33B - i17, -6, 8, Guard Burst 13
22_88B - i16, -6, KND, Guard Burst 12
22_88[ B ]BBB - i16, -16, LNC -> KND, Guard Burst 5, NC, Opp forced FC on block
22_88[ B ]B.B.B.B.B - i16, -16, LNC -> KND, Guard Burst 5, NC, Opp forced FC on Block, BA (Guard Break/Break Attacks), Clean Hit A
11_77B - i29, -6, KND
44BBB - i42, -2 (or whiff after first B), LNC, Guard Burst 6, TJ, NC
99_66_33K - i16, -6, KND, RO
22_88K - i24, -20, KND, STC
77_44_11K - i28, -18, KND, Forced Ground, TJ
44A+B - i47, -14, KND, Guard Burst 10, RO
44[A+B] - i71, UB, RO
44B+K - i38, UB, LNC, G cancellable
B During 44B+K - n/a, -14, KND, LNC on CH
Slide - i21, -22, KND, RO, TJ
Self Notes: Wow. I didn't think 22_88 [ B ] was just as fast as its non-held counterpart. Can someone check this, as I always felt that 22_88 [ B ] was far slower. If they are the same though, we just found an i16 75 damage punish (just version), that has the highest probability of clean hit. Not a bad risk reward for -16 on block. I'm pretty sure the BA at the end has +frames on block (I believe +12?) Again, someone can check.
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- #36
Ring
Lay still now
This must be some kind of a joke.
TC frames on 4A are very bad, but still this move is better than most horizontals at her arsenal now...
One thing that caught my attention - 1A being i23. Is this really correct? That would make it practically unseeable.
Sora, thanks for your work! I'm working on combo list now but I will update the FD thread later.
Sora
[11] Champion
It is quite the sick joke really.
And yes, 1A is i23. Not sure what you meant by unseeable though.
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- #38
Ring
Lay still now
Most people have trouble reacting to i24-25 consistently, so anything faster is basically "free" if they don't duck. Like Xianghua's 1A in SC3/SC4, it was also i23. Sure, 1A has a more obvious animation but still it's 2 frames faster than in SC4. It may not seem a lot, but it's a huge buff actually.
Other notes:
- 1K is actually faster too. This is a surprise. It still has A STC.
- 4K has great TC, already tested. They forgot to mention it.
- 3[K] is great, you can release it at any moment
Sora
[11] Champion
REALLY good news on 1K being an STC still.
Thank god on 4K. I'm assuming you tried a grab correct?
And I will have to integrate 3[K] into my game. That thing has really good frames unreleased already.
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Ring
Lay still now
Yep. No need to worry about this move, also TC activates pretty fast.
B+K must be spammed. Totally safe, pushback and 7 to guard burst. Nice.
Bad news on 6B+K - it has completely lost all TC frames...
A+BA is +4. A+BA on hit into 6A (i17) trades with i13 AA. It's safe on block but don't abuse it... you can punish it with any TJ move (jump over 2nd hit)
7_8_9 B+K still relaunches but only on wallsplat stun.