Raph confirmed as SCV Nightmare :D

ChaosK said:
"Viola confirmed as Ivys daughter! They both have white hair, as does ivy's father cervantes. Also they both dabbled into magic and have an affinity for purple clothing and long ranged fighting styles. The age fits perfectly. Just happy coincidence?"

Thats basically the same logic. I am not saying that it couldn't turn out to be true. But taking coincidences as evidence is just not a healthy way for reasoning. To be honest, the only thing "confirmed", is the op to be terrible at naming threads.
Click to expand...

Viola could in fact have some kind of relation to Ivy pulling that as a counter isnt much of a stretch. Besides the fact that we have things like character models and voices. There is just a lot of signs pointing to it and to just dismiss them all as speculative nonsense feels ignorant.
 
I see a "Just like her aunt?" license title thingy...anyway, is it obtained randomly or when using or fighting a certain character?
 
taffertier said:
Viola could in fact have some kind of relation to Ivy pulling that as a counter isnt much of a stretch. Besides the fact that we have things like character models and voices. There is just a lot of signs pointing to it and to just dismiss them all as speculative nonsense feels ignorant.
Click to expand...
I don't dismiss em, i just think that nothing of them weights enough for us to think its true.

Imo non of the pros outweigh the heavy counter that raph IS IN THE GAME. If graf dumas would be indeed raphael, than the designers would have had no reason to include him in the normal roster and its hard to think of any reasonable explanation for that, that would make sense.

Now you will say, "but raph is a popular char". True but so were Taki, Xianghua aso. If Graf Dumas would be Raph, they would have searched for a replacement for raphs fencer style (maybe amy?) rather than putting him in the game. And as long as there is no evidence that outweighs this fact, we have no reason to assume its true.

I had to lol though, as you said, you actually believe viola could be ivys daughter because i thought my completely baseless, random assumption would be a good counter to that logic but oh well ok.
 
ChaosK said:
"Viola confirmed as Ivys daughter! They both have white hair, as does ivy's father cervantes. Also they both dabbled into magic and have an affinity for purple clothing and long ranged fighting styles. The age fits perfectly. Just happy coincidence?"

Thats basically the same logic. I am not saying that it couldn't turn out to be true. But taking coincidences as evidence is just not a healthy way for reasoning. To be honest, the only thing "confirmed", is the op to be terrible at naming threads.
Click to expand...
cough-Ivy's celibate-cough
Edit:Oh, you were just joking chaosk. KK, no problem then lol.
 
ChaosK said:
I had to lol though, as you said, you actually believe viola could be ivys daughter because i thought my completely baseless, random assumption would be a good counter to that logic but oh well ok.
Click to expand...

I didnt say daughter, you did. I know she took a vow of celibacy. I just said related in some way, be it familiy, friend, acquaintance, etc.

Also did you ever consider the simple fact that Dumas could just be an alias that Raphael / Nightmare is using?

And Raphael's popularity alone is enough for him to be in the roster if you believe the developers themselves saying that Raphael was brought back entirely by the fans and his whole purpose and reason for being here has an explanation they never got around to showing. That isnt me saying it, it's them. Fans wanted him back despite him being dead so here he is, no replacement even though it is possible that Dumas is him.
 
ChaosK said:
I don't dismiss em, i just think that nothing of them weights enough for us to think its true.

Imo non of the pros outweigh the heavy counter that raph IS IN THE GAME. If graf dumas would be indeed raphael, than the designers would have had no reason to include him in the normal roster and its hard to think of any reasonable explanation for that, that would make sense.

Now you will say, "but raph is a popular char". True but so were Taki, Xianghua aso. If Graf Dumas would be Raph, they would have searched for a replacement for raphs fencer style (maybe amy?) rather than putting him in the game. And as long as there is no evidence that outweighs this fact, we have no reason to assume its true.

I had to lol though, as you said, you actually believe viola could be ivys daughter because i thought my completely baseless, random assumption would be a good counter to that logic but oh well ok.
Click to expand...
I feel I should point out that Heihachi was in Tekken 5, but he wasn't in the King of Iron Fist Tournament 5. Canonically, he was still unconscious. Furthermore, both Pat and Alpha are in the game, does that mean they're not the same person? They exist in two different time periods relative to each other; Pat is from the beginning, and Alpha is from the end.

Raphael awakens in a dungeon. Could this be after Nightmare's defeat at the hands of ZWEI? Perhaps. It would certainly explain Nightmare's bat theme, his Bat Castle, his new strategy of playing the game of thrones, and the fact that Tira hates him.
-DC:sc5nm1:
 
jwdinkc said:
I see a "Just like her aunt?" license title thingy...anyway, is it obtained randomly or when using or fighting a certain character?
Click to expand...
Just guessing, but that is probably referencing Pyrrah and Cassandra's relationship. No idea how its obtained.
 
He wasn't betrayed. He killed an important family connection who had suddenly been corrupted by the Evil Seed without consulting his other family members first. As such, they had no knowledge that the man had been malfested, and Raphael was excommunicated on grounds of "What the fuck are you doing?", basically.

Soul Edge probably preyed on his memories and used that to its advantage, manipulating his entire family to be executed and completely wiped out. Not that he would care anyway, since all he cares about now is "AMYAMYAMYAMYAMY".
 
How long had he been dreaming? How long had he climbed that endless spiral staircase? Somehow, he knew her room was at the top... France had been devastated by war, and Raphael, head of the once-proud Sorel legacy, was devastated by a betrayal that cost him everything. But then he met someone, someone who took him in and sheltered him in his hour of need, and suddenly none of it mattered. Her name was-"Amy!"



Raphael, at the very least considers it a betrayal- but that might have to do with him likely being more than a little inluenced by the sword.
 
Raphael killed the noble unintentionally... did in self defense...and after this, his family...they cooperated with the guard to be executed knowing that he had done in self defense....this is a betrayal obviusly. Raphael was the head of his family and they didn´t nothing to defend him...they tried to kill him (sorry for my english)
 
Imo, Raph is Nightmare. I think too many people assume that every character on the roster have to have been active at the exact same time. Remember, the story was supposed to be 4 times bigger than it ended up being. It was brought up earlier I believe will revive the point.

We know of several facts:

-Raphael's family was arrested after Dumas became active

-Graf Dumas is far more political and manipulative of events then our 2nd incarntion of Nightmare was in SCIII and IV

-Nightmare was reborn by Tira after dragging a corpse from under Ostreinsberg Castle

-At some point, Raphael wakes up in a prison cell

-At some point, Nightmare is somehow killed by ZWEI, possibly implied "Ring Out" via story pics

-At some point, Raphael and the 2nd Nightmare both died and mysteriously revived


We also know that Raph and Nightmare coincidentally share several traits both in and out of game:

-Raph and the reborn Nightmare are both 5'8"

-Raph and Nightmare are voiced by the same seiyuu

-Raph and Nightmare both have blonde hair in their artwork and the same blond hairstyle in CAS

-Raph and Nightmare share the exact same face models.

-Raph and Nightmare both died and somehow were resurrected.

-Raph and Nightmare both share the same bat theme in SCV

Ruling out none of these things and assuming Nightmare is in fact Raphael in SCV, this is my theory:

At some point after Nightmare is defeated and/or killed by ZWEI, he is apprehended and imprisoned (well "Graf Dumas" is at least). Most likely he was supposed to be judged for crimes of genocide and murder of innocents and being recognized as a Malfested by Siegfried, Hilde, and Patroklos.

If this is true, I assume Raph's bio begins at this point. Raphael, stripped of his memories as Nightmare, awakens in his cell with only the memory of his life beforehand as if he had just been asleep for a while.

The details of how Raphael was dead and is now alive cannot be explained because there is a huge inconsistency with Malfestation and the effects of Soul Edge's possession throughout the series, and specifics cannot be held when developers often shoehorn reasons for things happening the way they happen. However, I believe this is the sequence and general summary of events that Project Soul logically would take and have us believe.

In short: Nightmare died, Raphael revives in Dumas's cell, Raphael breaks out and becomes active searching for Amy.

Should this be true, and Viola is Amy (a separate argument I will make if needed), then it is logical that the portion of Viola's bio of her "regaining her memory" was also part of the cut story content and would have occurred between her last appearance and story mode and ZWEI's attendance in the battle against Nightmare's army.

In that case, the exchange they have in versus mode (Viola's hurt reluctance to fight ZWEI but callous taunt of being too curious, and ZWEI's indifference at fighting her and then slightly hurt farewell) might be related to the fact that ZWEI may have learned that Viola is a malfested like Nightmare/Dumas and his forces, likely via Viola's sudden resurgence of memory which she may have revealed to him. ZWEI feels obligated to kill Viola because she is malfested (as he shows no issue against Patty's crusade against malfested but the fact he is manipulated by Dumas and killing people who he cannot prove are malfested).

Whether Viola regains her memories because the one who malfested her (Raphael) revives and becomes active again is impossible to determine but I believe what I have already inferred and theorized is quite possible.

However it is only theory and cannot be confirmed, no matter how much evidence I bring forth.

Therefore, Raphael is Nightmare and Viola is Amy imo but Raphael and Nightmare were not both active and alive at the same time but the Raphael in SCV is one who is alive after the Nightmare of SCV is dead.

--Forgon
 
They have the same VAs in both regions actually. Some dipshit keeps re-editing the wiki saying it's the wrong VA (Patrick Seitz, who voices Cervantes, not Michael Sorich). Stuff like this is the reason people shouldn't rely solely on wikis.
 
Kirio4 said:
Raphael killed the noble unintentionally... did in self defense...and after this, his family...they cooperated with the guard to be executed knowing that he had done in self defense....
Click to expand...

That's actually a mistaken belief, dunno from where does that come from. In no point does any profile mentions any "self-defense killing" at all. In truth, Raphael realized too late that a noble the whole Sorel clan supported was malfested, and this gave his aristocratic enemies a reason to get him arrested. The betrayal of his family came afterwards: to save their own necks, members of his family tried to capture him for the authorities.

Forgon said:
snip
Click to expand...

Now I like your theory, but I wanted to bring one interesting point to light: Raphael's age. It's given as normal, it hasn't changed since SC2/3/4 and there's no mention about a reason for this. Strangely, he's the only known malfested to have his age revealed (as all others are now "Unknown", despite their ages being stated in every one of their appearances), and no comment is given as to why he's not aged a single year (Cervantes in all previous games and Ivy are always accompanied with "Stopped at", and even Voldo got a small mention despite this having not effected his aging)

Personally, I tend to side with the ghost theory. The lack of aging without any of the usual explanations plus that glow in his feet in his official art (typical of ghosts in Japanese folklore) seems to indicate that. Obviously, this could all be just misleading and done on purpose, so I hope we'll eventually get an answer.

Food for thought.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back