SarahPaiFan
[08] Mercenary
What are some of Cassandra's worst matchups? I know she has trouble against characters such as Siegfried and Kilik.
Worst Matchups for Cassandra
- Thread starter SarahPaiFan
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EggMaster
[08] Mercenary
IMO, Cassandra has bad match up against Kilik, Ivy, Hilde and Setsuka.
I don't think she could have some troubles against Siegfried. Sieg is unsafe, and Cassandra can punish very well.
I don't think she could have some troubles against Siegfried. Sieg is unsafe, and Cassandra can punish very well.
Maxou
[11] Champion
I don't see how Cassy can have a bad match up against Siegfried either.
She sure does have a bad match up against Setsuka though... her worst match up? I'd say Kilik and Setsuka (apart from Hilde, who's out of the game). Ivy's a bad match up too, but I don't know if it is as bad as it is against Kilik ... and Setsuka in a lesser way.
She sure does have a bad match up against Setsuka though... her worst match up? I'd say Kilik and Setsuka (apart from Hilde, who's out of the game). Ivy's a bad match up too, but I don't know if it is as bad as it is against Kilik ... and Setsuka in a lesser way.
andur
[10] Knight
I'd say Siegfried and Ivy are her worst matchups. They both can cause her serious spacing/range issues. Hilde, I'd actually put in favor of Cass, even when factoring in doom combos.
sWoRD_LoRD
[09] Warrior
her worst matchups are Hilde, Algol, and Amy. Definately not Siegfried or Ivy. Not Setsuka either. Setsuka might win the matchup but it's not a BAD matchup for her.
Cassandra does a lot more damage than Amy.
Her throws are very strong, her mids are very strong.
She can punish for a lot of damage 2B+K, a whiff (step) or a throw
B+K is very hard to handle for Amy, and Cass' blockstun moves are also hard because of her many TC moves going under 6BB.
Amy is quite steppable and Cassandra has an excellent step -> lots of whiff punish occasions
To sum it up, I'd say it's easier for Amy to do damage, but Cassandra does more so it balances out the matchup to 5-5.
Ivy is a bad matchup for me.
Cass has no range, and Ivy can space her.
It's hard for Cass !
As Maxou said, Setsuka has everything Cassandra has except better (excluding step).
Setsuka's only weakness is her difficult execution, and average step.
more damage, range, speed, safer ... 6-4 for Setsuka at least.
Worse matchups would be
Hilde, Ivy, Kilik, Setsuka
maybe Voldo
I'm surprised nobody mentionned Voldo.
Her throws are very strong, her mids are very strong.
She can punish for a lot of damage 2B+K, a whiff (step) or a throw
B+K is very hard to handle for Amy, and Cass' blockstun moves are also hard because of her many TC moves going under 6BB.
Amy is quite steppable and Cassandra has an excellent step -> lots of whiff punish occasions
To sum it up, I'd say it's easier for Amy to do damage, but Cassandra does more so it balances out the matchup to 5-5.
Ivy is a bad matchup for me.
Cass has no range, and Ivy can space her.
It's hard for Cass !
As Maxou said, Setsuka has everything Cassandra has except better (excluding step).
Setsuka's only weakness is her difficult execution, and average step.
more damage, range, speed, safer ... 6-4 for Setsuka at least.
Worse matchups would be
Hilde, Ivy, Kilik, Setsuka
maybe Voldo
I'm surprised nobody mentionned Voldo.
sWoRD_LoRD
[09] Warrior
Cassandra can B+K most of Setsuka's better mixups, can punish her unsafe stuff well and can step her well. It's still in Setsuka's favor but I wouldn't say it's a bad matchup at all.
Amy can punish Cassy B+K, and I know you CAN make B+K a problem for Amy, but that's more a matter of theory fighing, hard to do in practice. Cassy still has to play a defensive game against the most dangerously offensive character in the game.
Ivy can space but Ivy doesn't have any lows to be concerned about. Cassy can step guard until she gets close, Ivy can't do anything about that. Just, whip 3A is hard to step guard but it's easier for Cassy to do than most other characters who can't do it at all.
Amy can punish Cassy B+K, and I know you CAN make B+K a problem for Amy, but that's more a matter of theory fighing, hard to do in practice. Cassy still has to play a defensive game against the most dangerously offensive character in the game.
Ivy can space but Ivy doesn't have any lows to be concerned about. Cassy can step guard until she gets close, Ivy can't do anything about that. Just, whip 3A is hard to step guard but it's easier for Cassy to do than most other characters who can't do it at all.
EggMaster
[08] Mercenary
When I talk about "bad" match up, I include all the negative matchup for Cass, it means :
Kilik - Cass : 6-4 > Matter of range, spacing.
Setsuka - Cass : 6-4 > Setsu has all the Cassy's tools, with more range, and more damages.
Ivy - Cass : 6-4 > Range, spacing.
Hilde - Cass : 6-4 > Hilde has the doom combo, but Cass can whiff punish C3B/C3A very well. Besides, Cass 4BB:A can't be aGI by C3A). But Hilde is Hilde, doom combo FTW...
I don't think Cass has very bad match up, but some hard versus.
Amy : We have already talked about it. It's 5:5 in my opinion.
But she has heavy damages on her 66:B combo. And she pokes much better than Cass. Besides, it's hard to step, because of the Amy's 33B. So It's 5:5 but maybe a small 6:4 for Amy. But not a BAD match up I think.
Voldo : Not a bad match up for Cass. It's 5:5 IMO.
On one hand, Voldo has a really good range, and his SG damages are crazy. He can punish hardly some of great Cassandra's moves, like 236, B+KB, 1A, 33K, FC3B, 236AB ou 1K, with 66:B 66B 66:B 2A+B 236B.
On the other hand, Voldo has so many unsafe moves, and he fears the step (66B, A+B, BB, 66K, 3BB etc, so many useful moves for Voldo).
Cass can punish 3B by 4BB:A, and break 3BB by the same move. So Voldo's 3BB becomes finaly useless against Cass.
Cassandra 's low throws are helpful against mantis crawl, landfish and calistro rush stances.
And, Cass FC3B is simply godlike against Voldo > aGI 2K, 1A, BS1A, 66K, all the vertical, 236B etc... and it's Tech crouch (Avoid throws, BS A+B, AA and BS AA etc...). It's the better move against Voldo, with B+K.
Even if Voldo can Break throws in BS, it's very dangerous for him to stay in BS : Cass back throws make 60 dmgs, and she can grab a crouched opponant with low throws. And if Cass is back of the edge of the ring : Ring out.
Ivy : She has the advantage at long range (Whip), and she's quite efficient at middle/short range (Sword, Coil) > launchers, throws (SS, CS), lows (SW 22K, SW FC3B), good mixups.
It's quite hard to punish Ivy, cause she's kinda safe.
Kilik : I don't really know if it's 6:4 for him or simply 5:5.
I don't have so many versus against Kilik anymore, so maybe my advice will change about it.
Kilik - Cass : 6-4 > Matter of range, spacing.
Setsuka - Cass : 6-4 > Setsu has all the Cassy's tools, with more range, and more damages.
Ivy - Cass : 6-4 > Range, spacing.
Hilde - Cass : 6-4 > Hilde has the doom combo, but Cass can whiff punish C3B/C3A very well. Besides, Cass 4BB:A can't be aGI by C3A). But Hilde is Hilde, doom combo FTW...
I don't think Cass has very bad match up, but some hard versus.
Amy : We have already talked about it. It's 5:5 in my opinion.
But she has heavy damages on her 66:B combo. And she pokes much better than Cass. Besides, it's hard to step, because of the Amy's 33B. So It's 5:5 but maybe a small 6:4 for Amy. But not a BAD match up I think.
Voldo : Not a bad match up for Cass. It's 5:5 IMO.
On one hand, Voldo has a really good range, and his SG damages are crazy. He can punish hardly some of great Cassandra's moves, like 236, B+KB, 1A, 33K, FC3B, 236AB ou 1K, with 66:B 66B 66:B 2A+B 236B.
On the other hand, Voldo has so many unsafe moves, and he fears the step (66B, A+B, BB, 66K, 3BB etc, so many useful moves for Voldo).
Cass can punish 3B by 4BB:A, and break 3BB by the same move. So Voldo's 3BB becomes finaly useless against Cass.
Cassandra 's low throws are helpful against mantis crawl, landfish and calistro rush stances.
And, Cass FC3B is simply godlike against Voldo > aGI 2K, 1A, BS1A, 66K, all the vertical, 236B etc... and it's Tech crouch (Avoid throws, BS A+B, AA and BS AA etc...). It's the better move against Voldo, with B+K.
Even if Voldo can Break throws in BS, it's very dangerous for him to stay in BS : Cass back throws make 60 dmgs, and she can grab a crouched opponant with low throws. And if Cass is back of the edge of the ring : Ring out.
Ivy : She has the advantage at long range (Whip), and she's quite efficient at middle/short range (Sword, Coil) > launchers, throws (SS, CS), lows (SW 22K, SW FC3B), good mixups.
It's quite hard to punish Ivy, cause she's kinda safe.
Kilik : I don't really know if it's 6:4 for him or simply 5:5.
I don't have so many versus against Kilik anymore, so maybe my advice will change about it.
Maxou
[11] Champion
Believe us sword lord, Eggmaster and I know Sets vs Cassy VERY well since we play against each other all the time.
B+K is no "real" problem for Sets she has good tools to prevent Cassy from abusing it. B+K can be AA punished, and B+K B is 1B:B punished for 70 dmg or more if I want to mix it up (1B:B 1B:B and 1AAA / B+K mix up) while I never try it, B+K (semi charged or not) can be autoGI on reaction.
Setsuka can punish all of cassy unsafe stuff and IMO actually better than Cassandra because of more opportunities. Although as always with Setsuka, it is often harder for Sets to punish Cassy than the contrary.
Setsuka has also better throws than Cassy (yes, it exists, IMO Setsuka throws are 2nd in the game ... yes better than Ivy's but it's only my opinion), better damage, better CF game, better GI game, and better step reward.
Of course Cassy's step is better and of course she has a better RO game.
It's not a BAD match up but more of a hard one.
And yes Voldo is not a bad match up for Cassy...
B+K is no "real" problem for Sets she has good tools to prevent Cassy from abusing it. B+K can be AA punished, and B+K B is 1B:B punished for 70 dmg or more if I want to mix it up (1B:B 1B:B and 1AAA / B+K mix up) while I never try it, B+K (semi charged or not) can be autoGI on reaction.
Setsuka can punish all of cassy unsafe stuff and IMO actually better than Cassandra because of more opportunities. Although as always with Setsuka, it is often harder for Sets to punish Cassy than the contrary.
Setsuka has also better throws than Cassy (yes, it exists, IMO Setsuka throws are 2nd in the game ... yes better than Ivy's but it's only my opinion), better damage, better CF game, better GI game, and better step reward.
Of course Cassy's step is better and of course she has a better RO game.
It's not a BAD match up but more of a hard one.
And yes Voldo is not a bad match up for Cassy...
Interesting stuff about Voldo.
About Amy : her pokes are launchers so it's pretty fun indeed. 6:6B safe i16 is like a "super BB". It's a pity that the move requires (at least for me) so much concentration to do properly.
I'll work on the matchup and beat you next time !!
Oh and B+K IS a problem in real fight : Eggmaster gave me a real hard time with this move last time we played. Unsafe doesn't make it bad, otherwise Ivy's CL 214B or Xianghua's 44B would be bad moves.
About Amy : her pokes are launchers so it's pretty fun indeed. 6:6B safe i16 is like a "super BB". It's a pity that the move requires (at least for me) so much concentration to do properly.
I'll work on the matchup and beat you next time !!
Oh and B+K IS a problem in real fight : Eggmaster gave me a real hard time with this move last time we played. Unsafe doesn't make it bad, otherwise Ivy's CL 214B or Xianghua's 44B would be bad moves.
EggMaster
[08] Mercenary
Tresto : Against B+K, you have the 3A, with Amy. Safe, +5 on NH and CH. It's just enough to stop this move. Just take care of the range.
Ps : I edited my post about Voldo for more precision.
Ps : I edited my post about Voldo for more precision.
Foxbot
[09] Warrior
IMO:
Cass B+K is not a real problem for Setsuka or Amy. B+K's evasiveness is troublesome for Setsuka and Amy but B+K must be used intelligently. B+K on NH or CH puts Cass back to negative frames (which isn't too bad but I'd rather be at advantage). Unless you can magically hit confirm CH B+KB, you're risking either launching the other person or getting launcher punished. Let's not forget how B+K can get caught by lows when its TJ window ends ... It is still a good tool though.
A lot of Ivy's moves have bad frames, the problem is that to fully punish Ivy, Cass needs 1) fast reaction as the buffer punish window is small for many core moves like WP 3A 2) good spacing knowledge, particularly knowing the exact range of 236 because Ivy's moves have huge pushback. Sword Lord is wrong about Cass step-G vs Ivy being an automatic answer to Ivy's tools... he forgets that Ivy has excellent SG damage that can have Cass flashing red on the 2nd round.
Cass B+K is not a real problem for Setsuka or Amy. B+K's evasiveness is troublesome for Setsuka and Amy but B+K must be used intelligently. B+K on NH or CH puts Cass back to negative frames (which isn't too bad but I'd rather be at advantage). Unless you can magically hit confirm CH B+KB, you're risking either launching the other person or getting launcher punished. Let's not forget how B+K can get caught by lows when its TJ window ends ... It is still a good tool though.
A lot of Ivy's moves have bad frames, the problem is that to fully punish Ivy, Cass needs 1) fast reaction as the buffer punish window is small for many core moves like WP 3A 2) good spacing knowledge, particularly knowing the exact range of 236 because Ivy's moves have huge pushback. Sword Lord is wrong about Cass step-G vs Ivy being an automatic answer to Ivy's tools... he forgets that Ivy has excellent SG damage that can have Cass flashing red on the 2nd round.
EggMaster
[08] Mercenary
Foxbot said:
Agree with that.
Rigil
[09] Warrior
I agree with Maxou and Eggmaster about Cass vs Sets from having seen their vids against each other and me personally playing Something Unique and KDZ's Setsukas. I think Setsuka is likely Cassandra's worst matchup, I could see how it could be Ivy, but I don't feel like my knowledge of that matchup is complete enough to give my opinion.
Hilde is a bad matchup for anyone that the Doom combo works on by default.
Voldo does really seem like a bad matchup at first, but there are a ton of little tricks Cass can do to him to that make the matchup at least even for her.
As for Cass vs Kilik I feel that its 5:5, but I understand why you put it as 6:4 in Kilik's favor, I am just very used to the matchup and comfortable with it. Trying to get in on him is very hard with his range and ws B. Just remember that Cass can punish all forms of Asura on block very well, even the JF.
I just need to point out something retarded that Sword Lord said. Something about Algol being a hard match for Cass. But then Sword Lord probably think's that Cass vs Cass is like 7:3 or something.
Cass has no problem against Algol, FC 1B goes under bubbles and FC 3B GIs them. This will get her past bubbles if for some reason you have a problem with normal GIing one back into his face. Once you're in, like most characters you rape Algol.
Also matchups that aren't even where you don't win the matchup are BAD MATCHUPS.
Hilde is a bad matchup for anyone that the Doom combo works on by default.
Voldo does really seem like a bad matchup at first, but there are a ton of little tricks Cass can do to him to that make the matchup at least even for her.
As for Cass vs Kilik I feel that its 5:5, but I understand why you put it as 6:4 in Kilik's favor, I am just very used to the matchup and comfortable with it. Trying to get in on him is very hard with his range and ws B. Just remember that Cass can punish all forms of Asura on block very well, even the JF.
I just need to point out something retarded that Sword Lord said. Something about Algol being a hard match for Cass. But then Sword Lord probably think's that Cass vs Cass is like 7:3 or something.
Cass has no problem against Algol, FC 1B goes under bubbles and FC 3B GIs them. This will get her past bubbles if for some reason you have a problem with normal GIing one back into his face. Once you're in, like most characters you rape Algol.
Also matchups that aren't even where you don't win the matchup are BAD MATCHUPS.
sWoRD_LoRD
[09] Warrior
first you have to get past the bubbles, then you have to get past the fact that his backstep is insane, then you have to get past his solid midrange game, then you're on a somewhat level footing, but his close range game is great too. it's a bad matchup for her who can only fight at close range
Rigil
[09] Warrior
She has the tools to get in. Back step is only going to get Algol anywhere, BEFORE she's in. Once you're in his face how is he going to backstep you.
Foxbot
[09] Warrior
Anti-Asura ... I think you can interrupt with 2B+K/2A+G or just block punish.
OMG if I keep reading funny statements like this at work I am going to get fired.
OMG if I keep reading funny statements like this at work I am going to get fired.
andur
[10] Knight
Don't be silly Rigel. Cass vs Cass is obviously 10:0... Cass always wins that matchup no matter what! (barring the ultra rare draw...)
This post is not to be considered seriously in the slightest bit.
- Moderator
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Belial
King of Hundred Swords
I dont see many tools for Cass to get in onto any character that has good range and backstep. Given the fact you cannot play baiting/spacing game vs Algol that is not an easy task. Good thing is that she can punish hard many of his more or less spammable tools (at least in other matchups).
Amy vs is difficult to figure out, since on paper cass seems to be one of the few characters capable of effectively dealing with Amy, but in game it turns out pretty poorly and one of the key problems, I think, is lack of decent mid, damaging wake up and a fast WS/FC move.
Cass vs Amy
Pro:
Can punish 2B+K for 64
FC 3B aGI even 2B+K
Good postGI
Good step
Good throw game (Amy is generally weak to throws)
Con:
Poor wake up
No fast FC moves (i.e. poorly handles blocked 3B from Amy)
Poor risk reward on basic mixup
Amy has great step
If you look at that list, well, I probably forgot some stuff, but yet Cass advantages except ability to punish 2B+K are pretty minor.
You dont get a lot of opportunities to apply FC 3B, it is a nice bonus that will make amy totally revisit her game on few setups, but yet its nothing all that strong.
Your throws only go as far as a mixup but since Amy has such a good aGI and step your mids will always be lacking in risk/reward, since damage isn't all great, and even if you risk unsafies for KD you have no strong wake up to supplement it.
And even if you step some Amy moves you dont have a good 8wr punisher, and your 236B etc most will come out too late, well, you probably will simply stick with step~G~BB/throw.
So Amy wins in almost every respect of the game, speed, range, damage (due to her reward off KD) and wins by a good amount, while Cass is mainly stuck defending.
So you only should use your experience along with theory, until those two dont match - it means something is wrong with either your game or your ideas. Unless Amy is unfamiliar with basic stuff like FC 3B set ups or 33K~variations you can cause some confusion and maybe win, but if she knows the matchup it is probably favorable for Amy.
I wanted to cover other chars too but have to go now =)
Amy vs is difficult to figure out, since on paper cass seems to be one of the few characters capable of effectively dealing with Amy, but in game it turns out pretty poorly and one of the key problems, I think, is lack of decent mid, damaging wake up and a fast WS/FC move.
Cass vs Amy
Pro:
Can punish 2B+K for 64
FC 3B aGI even 2B+K
Good postGI
Good step
Good throw game (Amy is generally weak to throws)
Con:
Poor wake up
No fast FC moves (i.e. poorly handles blocked 3B from Amy)
Poor risk reward on basic mixup
Amy has great step
If you look at that list, well, I probably forgot some stuff, but yet Cass advantages except ability to punish 2B+K are pretty minor.
You dont get a lot of opportunities to apply FC 3B, it is a nice bonus that will make amy totally revisit her game on few setups, but yet its nothing all that strong.
Your throws only go as far as a mixup but since Amy has such a good aGI and step your mids will always be lacking in risk/reward, since damage isn't all great, and even if you risk unsafies for KD you have no strong wake up to supplement it.
And even if you step some Amy moves you dont have a good 8wr punisher, and your 236B etc most will come out too late, well, you probably will simply stick with step~G~BB/throw.
So Amy wins in almost every respect of the game, speed, range, damage (due to her reward off KD) and wins by a good amount, while Cass is mainly stuck defending.
So you only should use your experience along with theory, until those two dont match - it means something is wrong with either your game or your ideas. Unless Amy is unfamiliar with basic stuff like FC 3B set ups or 33K~variations you can cause some confusion and maybe win, but if she knows the matchup it is probably favorable for Amy.
I wanted to cover other chars too but have to go now =)
Nofacekill3r
[11] Champion
It's really not that simple, and Ivy still has tools to space Cassy out even when she does manage to get close. Not only that - it's not like Cassy wants to stay super close anyway - more on that in a sec. Moreover, you're going to be taking alot of SG damage on the way in, and if Ivy anticipates your movement she can switch to SW and then you have a whole bunch of crap to deal with.
Your best bet is to bait Ivy into switching to SW stance and then you abuse Cassy's broken backdash and whiff punish for 64+dmg each time. Don't believe me? Check out the range and tracking issues on some of her best SW pokes. She really needs to be in 2A range to have a decent step killer and her backdash killers are lacking in general. The only way I can really deal with backdashers in SW state is to anticipate it and start backdashing myself and either whiff punish with 3B+K if they are stupid about it(not whiff punishing on reaction), or switch to CL stance if they are smart about it. This resets the whole process and now you have to worry about getting in again. In case you haven't noticed, Ivy's spacing is clunky because of the stance cooldowns, and she has to be two steps ahead of how you are going to space and move to properly control the match.
Just worry about out-chipping Ivy and being tricky about your movement. Ivy usually can't make a huge comeback outside of CS/SS, so just learn to predict and break those. I just thought you were oversimplifying the matchup.
Also, kinda off topic, but I think the best way to deal with Ivy is to pick a character who can take advantage of her clunky stance transitioning. This means you have good gap closers that deal good damage and you have pretty decent ways to deal with SW stance.
For example:
Sophitia
Amy
Lizardman
Mitsurugi
Hilde
Xianghua
Setsuka
Voldo (though not as much as the others)