The SC Revival Thread

Malice said:
As far as balance, this game is very balanced. Having so many ranges in characters is a good thing. If you want everyone to be 5/5 or just have two levels of characters, then this game would be boring as hell. The only game that I can think of which has the most balance is Virtua Fighter. How many people play Virtua Fighter for all the balance that it has?
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Hey, man, VF is my game!

Its funny you say that because Soul Calibur is in the same position as VF5 -- It was pretty big when it first came out but now its in a position where only the core players are left. The reason its not big anymore isn't because its balanced (that's actually a term of respect every fg community knows VF for), its because other games drew its fans away, ironically starting with SC4. VF is just a 'later-term' example of SC4's position right now, where most of the players who left are waiting for a new installment.

As far as the High tier characters go, to all the high tier players, the problem isn't the fact that their high tier. At least to me it isn't. The problem comes in to the fact that with CERTAIN high tier characters, it takes pretty much NO EFFORT to win matches.

For example, I believe that Cervy, Setsuka, and Seigfried are all high tier. Nobody has a problem with them, or even if they do, its not enough of a problem to become vocal like for Hilde and Algol. Their all high tier, so what's the problem?

With the first three, you HAVE to put time, effort, and study to be able to pull out wins, let alone win tournaments. With Algol and Hilde, all you need to do is exploit bubble infinites, or instant Ring Out combos to immediately be able to win a stupidly high number of matches. It doesn't take long to learn those two characters, all you need to know is a couple of combos. And you could argue that many Hilde players don't really 'know' Hilde because you don't see them use the rest of her moveset, besides a few DOOM setups.

Whether or not Hilde or Algol win tournaments is not the point, the point is that the players that wield them are able to have an extremely effective advantage before the match even starts, while lower ranking characters (not even necessarily low-tier characters) have to put in an extremely high amount of hours of practice, study, and playing to counteract this.

Winning in any fighting game SHOULD be about skill, but its simply not the case with Algol/Hilde. What skill is shown about Algol winning from a bubble juggle? There is some, but what is it compared to winning with Talim or Taki? If anything, its a slap in the face to the low or mid-tier or even high-tier character player, because dozens of hours of practice can be negated by some weak, instant RO shenanigans. Its a very economical decision to pick Hilde/Algol, because it doesn't take much effort to get instant W's, and I'm not mad at anyone who does, more power to you. But it simply goes against the spirit of what FGs should be about, which will scare fans away easily, because some people simply wont put up with it and flock to another game (can't really blame them).
 
@Vincent: Relax. I'm just trying to keep this thread on reviving Soul Calibur and not all this talk on balance which is what this thread has turned. Someone can make a new thread if they want to talk about balance, but whatever, keep playing that Calibur.

From the perspective of every character being capable of winning, this game is balanced. You don't want a game where every matchup is 5/5 or there being a huge disparity between the top characters, the rest of the roster, and the characters at the bottom. Look at BB:CT.

Range is a good thing because it makes for more interesting matches and matchups. And SC4 offers a wide range of characters to use. It's not perfect, however this game was developed for the casual audience, so I am not expecting them to take everything found in tournament play into consideration when it comes to balance. And that's where an arcade release before going to console would have helped so that adjustments could be made because once you go retail, you're limited on what you can change within the game.

I would like to sit here and break down every point, but I got things to do and would not like all my time taken up writing walls of text, so just run with the points I'm trying to make. Main point is that SC4 is the most balanced out of all of the games in the series and is still better than most next-gen fighters. More people just need to play it offline. And at this point, I just want to see people get together and have fun playing offline, the way this game is meant to be played. You can't do much else if there isn't an active scene going on.
 
Malice said:
Is this the Soul Calibur revival thread or the OMGWTF low tiers can't win because they suck thread? Come on.
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The point is the game's not all that balanced. Doesn't make the game bad by any means, and that's not a reason to abandon the game, but there are some clear character limitations in place.

Personally I'd rather see that kinda thing noticed by Namco so that they don't consider this kinda character range "good". (Assuming that wishing makes it so of course.)

Low tiers are capable of winning, you just won't see them consistently win tournaments because the people in the finals are not only highly skilled but also use characters that will put themselves in the best position to win because money is on the line.
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That seems contradictory IMO. If they're capable of winning, it wouldn't be a gamble to use them when money's on the line. Since they're not, the game is unbalanced rather than very balanced.
 
Yo I thought SC1 was considered balance since everyone was overpowered. This whole a balanced game is boring is a retarded theory probably driven by VF.

To me VF is boring anyway, I don't know how the game works but I don't really enjoy watching it or playing...no hate.

SC is fun, the engine is fun, the characters are unique and fun.

This how I group the balance in SC4...

1.(Hilde, Algol, Kilik, Voldo, Amy)

2.(Asta, Ivy, Sophie, Cass, Mitsu, Yoshi, Setsuka, Cervantes, Xianghua, Seig, NM, Vader, Lizzy,)

3.(Apprentice, Taki, Maxi, Yun Seong, Zasa, Talim, Raph, Rock)

4.(Tira, Seong Mina, Yoda)

It's very easy to bring line 1 down to 2 with a few nerfs, I actually think Algol aside from his retarded ass combo's is on line 2 already but people would disagree. And getting line 3 to 2, takes a bit more work but it's easily doable. Line 4 on the other hand, I don't even know what to do there.
 
Malice said:
Range is a good thing because it makes for more interesting matches and matchups.
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This is the reasoning someone uses when they can't acknowledge the fact as it is, so they bend over backwards to justify it. A reasonable person will not believe that a gap in tiers is good because it creates balance by being unbalanced. That could only work if you were forced to switch characters on purpose, provided that you actually had options to choose from. But no, your choice is limited (i.e. Yoda vs. Hilde), since everyone else would be a joke.
 
King: if every matchup was 5/5, it'd just like VF, but with our engine. And there's nothing wrong with that concept at all.

And also what vints is saying: counterpicking
 
We really are pretty whiny as a community, aren't we? Games can be unbalanced, holy balls, it happens (more often than not). And just cause kids like Thuggish and RTD have dominated through the US with top tier characters doesn't mean that they wouldn't still be able to rip your shit with a lower tier (I'm not gonna speak for any of the top players as far as challenges are concerned, as that is not my place, but I bet if you tried, you could find out on your own!)

I also remember Omega ripping Evo a new a-hole with Zas and all of us being like "Damn, son!"

Sure, it sucks that maxi's BB is punishable, and that Raph's AA is stepable and that Tira likes to kill herself and that Mina is, well, Khentable, but there are a shit-ton of "Playable" characters in the game to combat the shitty tiers.

I guess what I really want to say is that, if you want a true SC4 "Revival", maybe we should bitch less, and play more. I still see tournaments being hosted, and people showing up to them. Worlds seemed to kick a pretty solid amount of ass, and there is a ridiculous American major coming up this summer...want more? Host more.

Bitch less, play more!
 
The revival has been done with a long time ago, we ain't peaking but we doing fine and better. Hell talking about balance on these forums is a revival, means we interested. And who's whining? Balance is that important, so it should be discussed.
It's interesting to note that the players considered the most skilled in the world, use Talim, Zass, and NM.
 
piggy said:
I guess what I really want to say is that, if you want a true SC4 "Revival", maybe we should bitch less, and play more. I still see tournaments being hosted, and people showing up to them. Worlds seemed to kick a pretty solid amount of ass, and there is a ridiculous American major coming up this summer...want more? Host more.
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Rockass way to not make a point.
 
BLACKSTAR84 said:
someone else not having any clue about algol bubble infinites
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to land a bubble infinite you have to:

-land 33B a linear i24 launcher

-hit a crouching opponent at POINT BLANK RANGE

-buffer 33B through a move or dash to prevent algol from sidestepping at all. If he side steps even the slightest from an improper buffer it wont work. buffering through dash not only tells people its coming it also adds frames to the start up. even if you can do 6633B perfect buffer (I can its about medium execution required) it ends up being around an i27-i28 launcher depending on how fast you can do it. as for buffering through a move , to even make it viable it would have to be a move with massive +on block and moves him in point blank range. the only thing close to this is algols FC 8(B). at tip its +8. buffering 33B through this would mean that any i16 will trade with it not to mention THEY HAVE TO BE CROUCHING.

-half the the characters can't be bubble infinite'd because of hit box issues

basically infinities aren't really a problem . ask any algol player, they are way to much of a gamble to try ina real match and frankly will never hit an educated opponent.

the point im trying to make I guess is stop spreading misinformation. No one really understands algol let alone the mechanics of 33B combos. if you want REAL factual information about algol you guys should listen to tiamat or whodat. algol infinites are not all you make them out to be
 
Sigh...the SC series is dead to me. I'm gonna trade in or sell my copy of SC4 soon. SC2 was my first competitive game and I really enjoyed it. That's why I'm kinda sad to see it go like this.

There were and are some cool kats left in the community, but after lurking the SC forums for so many years I've become disenfranchised to the attitudes and overall lack of respect of some in this community, some of whom are top players. I only lurk nowadays to see what's up and have completely given up on even attempting to get better at the game.

Maybe one day the game and community will pull itself together, but until then I don't plan on buying SC5 when it comes out and if I do it'll be from the used and after-price-drop bin.

Peace.
 
EpicPhail37 said:
Sigh...the SC series is dead to me. I'm gonna trade in or sell my copy of SC4 soon. SC2 was my first competitive game and I really enjoyed it. That's why I'm kinda sad to see it go like this.

There were and are some cool kats left in the community, but after lurking the SC forums for so many years I've become disenfranchised to the attitudes and overall lack of respect of some in this community, some of whom are top players. I only lurk nowadays to see what's up and have completely given up on even attempting to get better at the game.

Maybe one day the game and community will pull itself together, but until then I don't plan on buying SC5 when it comes out and if I do it'll be from the used and after-price-drop bin.

Peace.
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That's sad to hear. But this game is still awesome and more fun to play than any other fighter out there in my opinion. And that's really a narrow view that you have of this community. Offline the community is awesome. Who cares what goes on on a forum. It's not an accurate representation of this community as a whole. Do what I do and not pay as much attention to it and focus more on playing the game and having fun.
 
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