I should change my name to the Oracle or some shit!
Xephukai hit on the point- the game herds you in one direction. The fact remains; not all games do this. Not all competitive games do this either.
-Idle
See, this is where I think our disagreement about SC comes from. I think, also, we'd have to first examine what we describe as high level players and then who fits the bill, though. I honestly feel that, especially after playing and watching some of the better players of the game at FSAK, I've only affirmed my beliefs about the game and those players.
In my honest opinion, I believe that getting damage based off playing 'the safe' game becomes harder but not impossible for certain characters at higher levels. Honestly, I feel the only poster child for this (playing the 'perfect' game) is Sophitia (the character), but certain players DO take Spike-esque qualities into the game and it makes them more effective because of it. On the other hand, we have characters like Amy and Mitsu who, in my opinion, benefit more (Especially Amy in this regard, though moreso because of her ability to keep her flow going and Mitsu having to rely on reading his opponent much much more in order to get the same effect) from their ability to disrepect things like frames and make the game seem much more chaotic. Of course, like I said earlier though, any game and every fighting game is going to come down to numbers, regardless of whatever surface gimmicks you have to mask them.
When choosing players, I'm going off of their ability to win and what I know of them as players. Examining who these players are and why I feel that they are the best representation of Spikes for the game., we have:
SU
RTD
HumanTyphoon
Honorable mention to DaGGoth.
Keep in mind, I don't believe in classifying THE PLAYERS, so much as I do their PLAYSTYLE in the game. I would also put Malek up for debate, but I honestly have to play him a bit more in order to examine one aspect of him as a player (Though I like to hear other people's analysis of a player's game and quite a few people have agreed with me on my thoughts of Malek's Ivy that would make him seem like more of a Spike-type player).
Now, first and foremost, I'd like you all to to note the characters of each respective player. We have SU (who mains Kilik but has used Ivy), RTD (who used Hilde but has used a number of character's since her death, though I'm basing my opinions mostly off of his Ivy and Kilik, HumanTyphoon (who plays Setsuka but has a secondary Sophie whom I think he plays much better), and DaGGoth (who players Sophie).
This is also great because, with FSAK being not too long ago, I have vids to help demonstrate my points! Still, also keep in mind, that, with this, I'm not saying the players lack the ability to adapt, I'm saying that, in general, in order to have a chance at beating these players, you must first first recognize and defeat the best qualities of the players and their characters.
Getting to the analysis, though! First we have SU. It should speak for itself when you are more surprised than anything when you have a Kilik player use something like Asura Dance. Basically, though, his whole game revolves around poking and being able to take advantage of Kilik's spacing to keep himself safe while also being able to to use the fear of Asura and wrB to keep his opponent's honest in the frame game. Honestly, his main offensive tools are wrB, 66B, 2A, 2K, and iFotD (coincidence that, when he felt his game was off at FSAK, he couldn't do iFotD and got stepped all over the place when he lost to Mick and myself). He also rarely uses Kilik's 6AA, probably self-consciously because it's a high with the reward of iFotD and he doesn't like coming that far out of his shell. So, all in all, he concentrates on poking his way through his opponent's defenses as a means to get them to create more holes in their defense, while using Asura as an enabler against opponents who let him.
Still, his biggest strengths are also his biggest weaknesses; since he is overly defensive, he has trouble dealing with people who pressure him or can space him out. How many times did we hear him complain about Ivy? Probably has something to do with faith in his character's offensive capabilities, but he suffers if he has to try to mount an offense. And, on top of that, to display both his strengths and his weaknesses, we have:
Strengths: SU vs. Oof -
I want to note the difference between match 1 and match 2. Notice how Oof was able to break through SU's defenses (after giving him no reason whatsoever to duck in the first match) with throws and actually get SU to attack in the second match...but then fail to switch his style up and let SU get right back into his comfort zone.
Weaknesses: SU vs. Mick -
I'd also like to mention how, several times, the way he and RTD plays Ivy was regarded as "very basic".
RTD - Honestly, like I said at FSAK, I feel that, in regards to spacing and sheer defense, he has the best of any Calibur player I've played. There's not really much to say in regards to his strength except that he has an iron defense, great character knowledge, and rarely presents an opprotunity for the opponent to capitalize on a mistake.
Weaknesses: Honestly, the reason why I feel he is one of the best players if because of his ability to adapt so well and then sit back on his own strengths. Though, right now, I can say that the flaws of his characters become his own.
Example vid: RTD vs. SU -
HumanTyphoon - Honestly, there's not much to be said about him except that I think that his knowledge of frame data and whatnot is not paralleled by many. His punishment is top-notch, in most cases.
His biggest weakness, though, to me, is his character and his inability to approach more unorthodox situations. I think he would make a phenomonal turtle as Sophie, but he suffers from part of the Sets Effect with Sets (I can attack from damn near anywhere and remain safe, I have umbrella, and 1A
A) and Sets puts herself at risk, in my opinion, much more than most characters when she doesn't read her opponents well.
Vid: HT vs. Malek
It was harder to search for vids for this because I don't believe too many people know Sets well enough to have to force people into their comfort zone or to adapt so yeah.
Other than that, I mentioned DaGGoth because, I remember when I still was able to play Sophie, I thought, "Damn...this guy is very effective but very, very boring."
Now, onto my more 'Johnny-esque' players.
ThugishPond - Of course the King had to go somewhere on this list. His strengths, I believe, lie in the way he approaches the game. He actually lacks some character knowledge and, while some may be more than willing to argue this is possible due to the character he plays, I'll note that, regardless, we still haven't seen any Amy player even near mirror his accomplishments. More than anything, I feel that his strength is his ability to read his opponents and get into their heads. I remember at FSAK, when we played, which was more lightheated than anything, him remarking after some attack that, "You're the first person to punish that all tournament." And, honestly, if you don't know when and where Amy can't be punished at this point, you really can't apply the Amy-Argument to him and the fact that he's able to get into his opponent's mind in such a way is testament to his strengths as a player.
As for weakness, I've told him before and I'll state again, he gives some opponents too much credit and, in response, often takes a more defensive/safe approach to the game. Honestly, I feel that he and Mick play in the most similar fashion of any players, though taking advantage of their characters' strengths and weaknesses in different ways.
As for vids, I don't have a link to his matches vs. NFK killer, but that was a great example of both his strengths and weaknesses.
Mick - Dunno where to start with this guy. I think he and TP have a similar approach to the game but he actually has more of the character knowledge to back things up. And, honestly, he adapts so fast that it's crazy. I honestly wonder how many people knew that Mick went into the battle vs. Oof with little to no Vader knowledge. Even though he lost, the fact that he can grasp on to things in game so fast that he's never seen before, basically ignore frames, and throw other top players off their game.
-----
THIS IS WHERE I STOPPED WRITING!!!
Woahhzz
And an honorary mentions to Xeph, Ramon (whom I REALLY wanted to comment on in further depth but figured leaving this at 3 of each would be better, especially considering he plays Sophie), KCD, and Belial.
So, all in all, though this seems to be more of a turtle or aggro argument, I think this game has room for quite a diverse group of players. I honestly think that the top players have that ability to make what should or shouldn't work work extremely well. While some matchups may favor one style of play over another, I honestly believe that, especially when you take into consideration mutiple approaches to any given situation in the game, meticulousness can only take you so far.
Like I said, went back in finished this up for Miko, so I stopped adding vids and didn't add some of my thoughts, but yeah. On top of that, I think I got more insight into what Idle meant and that has given reason to type of my writings on in-game options in my next little Callibus thing.
All in all, while I understand his frustrations, I think he's not looking at some of the reason as to why some things fail to work.
For anyone involved in this topic, though, I think, in general, Seth Killian's Domination 101, if you haven't read it, would be a great read. While they're from different games and manifest themselves in different ways, I've always thought every good fighting game has the same fundamentals so:
Dom 101 -
http://shoryuken.com/f176/
And, remember, "You have to Sheng Long to stand a chance."
