Competitive Player Archetypes and the implication.

Ramon said:
Well the community is mostly High level Spikes - Tho not many people in high level Johnnys i can still think of some that are! But what ends up happening to Johnny is that the Spikes see him comming to high level and transform him to a different creature!
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Best post of the month, I agree with Ramon on this one. I don't know how many times I've been told "Shogun that's not gonna work, you need to play like this cause that's how I do it" which is not always true.....especially when I'm looking at it work lmao.

If what I believe these definitions mean, then I'm 60/40 spike/johnny.

I play to win and with confidence when it comes down to something serious, no one wants to lose, but I'm not so jacked up about losing if I know I gave it my all. I am a Johnny by heart, I love to create my own style with any type of player I use in any game, which gets me into much controversy when my johnny game comes in contact with high level spikes, even when I win and eventually surpass them.
 
Again I think the spike mentality is fine. If using a few moves against a certain character keeps them at a distance that you prefer why shouldn't you use it? If a certain move kills a mixup it's wise to use it. If a certain move does the most damage when whiff/block/step punishing why not use it? At this point so much has been discovered in the game it's difficult to find new things. And regardless of that If you have methods that give you the greatest advantage(most damage, places you at optimal range) there really is no reason not to use them out of principle. Personally when trying to study match ups I'll notice Kilik can Asura a move but he can also GI it with MO. I simply choose Asura cause it's more damage although spectators will look on and say oh he's like every other tier whore.

Also when examining top players there is still a bit of a gray area on whether they are Spikes or Johnnys.
SU for example. Picked up Kilik before he came to 8WR run so there was no high tier mentality. Since he's started played many have seen that his style of play is rather unconventional. Even with his Asura usage, not many have been able to use it quite as well as he has. Relatively the only player who sat there and Asura'd Hilde to death. Now some might say, he's relying on what everyone already knows is one of Kilik's best moves but he took it to knew heights. Yes he's now adopted things that have been around that he didn't use from the beginning, like step punishing, block punishing, proper frame knowledge but those are all things anyone who plays the game should use.

Both RTD and Ceirnian as an example. If I'm not mistaken Ceirnian pretty much discovered Hilde's hidden talents. So If he came up with the strategy using it doesn't make him unoriginal at all. RTD on the other hand showed up with a completely different Hilde which many pointed out and were amazed by. Yes he used her charge moves but his overall style was different. That makes them both original.

I don't think anyone can necessarily claim ownership of a certain strat or a few moves. That's why we post our findings in the forums in hopes to boost our overall ability as a community to a higher level. It's not wise to sit there and say people copy the top players or someone else strategy. If that was the mentality to maintain we wouldn't bother sharing information and uploading vids. People work hard to discover things and then they share cause they want others to use it to. If a few people all play the same low tier character when one of them discovers a hidden gem they will share it in hopes others find it useful.

The only thing I could argue that truly separates Johnnys and Spikes is what they do after they learn what is known. So you learn everything that is known about your character, do you stop there or do you try to find things everyday? That is what should separate a Johny and a Spike. Look at Malek, he uses what everyone knows is good with Ivy. But he is endless finding new things to implement into his game. That is what defines someone who is original and practical. He wont abandon what is known to be good with Ivy but he will always try to add something new.
 
You guys are jumping the gun a bit. The archetype of a player doesn't mean that player is a pro. I know plenty of spikes that are just average.

And Idle asked specifically what archetype frequents the top of SC4. Now that I think about SU is a spike, he started out as a Johnny but at FSAK he's game was watered down completely. He doesn't believe in taking chances, or as he calls it being random, he believes in playing a perfect and safe game...and for the most part that works. But as you saw, there's a major wall there. (that's a different discussion).

Is this guy a Johnny or a Spike?
This guy is a straight up Johnny. The crowds came to see him play.(someone made a lot money off him)
SC3 two Johnny's
SC4 might need to mute this one. Straight up Johnny
 
im curious as to why some of you think spikes are a bad thing
to me spike seems like: "someone who has consolidated knowledge and who relies on this fact"
 
ShenRii said:
I guess i'm 40% Timmy, 60% Johnny.
Timmy:
- Aim to have fun
- Gaming Competition = Social

Johnny:
- Drive is to express own brilliance
- Aim to use unorthodox methods to attain victory
- Loves to analyse game/character mechanics

Regarding the Limit issue.
My belief is that we do have a limit to our physical abilities (i.e. Reaction Time) but that there is no limit to our mental abilities (i.e. Yomi, Analytic Skills)
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I like this post. Excuse my scrubby self.
 
For now. I am 40% T, 25% J, & 35% S, just for now. Sometimes I can be more Spiky or more Johnny, depends on my opponent & situation.
^_^ Nice topic IdleMind.
 
RedDjinn said:
Shogun Im curious to know who are these spikes you speak of that you have "surpassed" ?
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Well you would have to know what games I've came from before I started playing soul calibur.

In the Soul Calibur world there's hella "I play to win and to win only" spikes I've surpassed. I am very confident in my game.

Also why you asking me this question, you must want to test my gaming capabilities also?
 
Tha_Shogun said:
Well you would have to know what games I've came from before I started playing soul calibur.

In the Soul Calibur world there's hella "I play to win and to win only" spikes I've surpassed. I am very confident in my game.

Also why you asking me this question, you must want to test my gaming capabilities also?
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I was kind of curious as well... who're these "high level spikes" that you've "surpassed?"
 
Xephukai said:
I was kind of curious as well... who're these "high level spikes" that you've "surpassed?"
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Yall's momma negros.

You would have to know higher ranked players from the other games to know where I'm coming from.

Did you guys miss the part where I said 'eventually'? I'm very confident in my game and feel I will pass a lot of high level spikes who try to question and convert my Jhonny game by saying it will "never" work, cause every person that said it wouldn't work.....it's worked on them. And to me, I feel that's high-level spike talkin', and yes I will surpas them cause I already have the advantage of optimisim; knowing that as retarted as something may look, if i'm still getting hit by it, there's gotta be a reason.

I just need alittle further knowledge of character matches and yomi before it happens, and that I can only get from tournament experience or everyday play with higher ranked players, neither of which I have a supply of here.

Edit: Ok I think I know what just happened, you got both my posts confused. Yea I have passed spikes by that case, imo I've passed alot of players who play just to win and really doesn't have no viraity in their style as long as it's too win. One I know fa sho I feel I surpassed is Kenhowe. He can say what he wants about his experience like I hear from everyone time and time again but I feel I got naturally better than him. How do I know this? Cause he tried to feed me the exact same bull shit that a lot of higher level spikes did, telling me how something will "never" work. Seriously, this dude told me that A:6 is just random and there's no need to learn it, but I don't see why anyone would not want to master a 36 damage i10 punisher, even for Taki who needs all the damage she can. I'm up to about 70% of having it on point, and I will have it up to 95%.

There's others I feel I surpassed and the high level spikes I will surpass but saying one is gonna go into flame wars about how I think I know what i'm talking about and im an online player only, and i'm tired of flame wars atm.
 
Tha_Shogun said:
Yall's momma negros.

You would have to know higher ranked players from the other games to know where I'm coming from.
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I don't see why you're being so defensive towards Redjin's and my question. It's pretty harmless, really.


Tha_Shogun said:
Did you guys miss the part where I said 'eventually'? I'm very confident in my game and feel I will pass a lot of high level spikes who try to question and convert my Jhonny game by saying it will "never" work, cause every person that said it wouldn't work.....it's worked on them. And to me, I feel that's high-level spike talkin', and yes I will surpas them cause I already have the advantage of optimisim; knowing that as retarted as something may look, if i'm still getting hit by it, there's gotta be a reason.
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Well, before you assume that everything you do will work on high level spikes, I'd suggest trying to do it against them first. It's going to take more than optimism to outplay, outsmart, and beat a lot of these top players. You're ignoring the credit that a lot of them have earned.


Tha_Shogun said:
Edit: Ok I think I know what just happened, you got both my posts confused. Yea I have passed spikes by that case, imo I've passed alot of players who play just to win and really doesn't have no viraity in their style as long as it's too win.
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I didn't get any post confused. Here's the statement that Redjin and I were questioning;
which gets me into much controversy when my johnny game comes in contact with high level spikes, even when I win and eventually surpass them.
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That sentence as a whole implies you've beaten and surpassed high level spikes. Now, I'm assuming we're talking about SCIV... unless everyone in your previous communities questioned your play and knowledge, as well.
Also you've still yet to answer Redjin's and my question. :/ The closest you've gotten was
Tha_Shogun said:
One I know fa sho I feel I surpassed is Kenhowe. He can say what he wants about his experience like I hear from everyone time and time again but I feel I got naturally better than him. How do I know this? Cause he tried to feed me the exact same bull shit that a lot of higher level spikes did, telling me how something will "never" work. Seriously, this dude told me that A:6 is just random and there's no need to learn it, but I don't see why anyone would not want to master a 36 damage i10 punisher, even for Taki who needs all the damage she can. I'm up to about 70% of having it on point, and I will have it up to 95%.
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To my understanding, Kenhowe hasn't played offline since SCIV first came out. Even then, he only won local events, if he won at all. Now, he's just a online player, no where near the level of a "high level spike."


Tha_Shogun said:
There's others I feel I surpassed and the high level spikes I will surpass but saying one is gonna go into flame wars about how I think I know what i'm talking about and im an online player only, and i'm tired of flame wars atm.
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Well, confidence is never a bad thing. But harsh reality is harsh.
 
Discussion can't be expected when some of us don't even think this stuff is real. I don't know about you, but I've never heard of these fags Johhny or Timmy before. And it's not like respect should be waiting around the corner just because something sounds cool.

I will say this. Identifying with a set of completely original classifications is a tough road. I think most people eat it up because it's an easy way to make sense of themselves. Very similar to how women fall for palm readings, astrology signs, numerology, and all that other BS!!!
 
Xephukai said:
I don't see why you're being so defensive towards Redjin's and my question. It's pretty harmless, really.



Well, before you assume that everything you do will work on high level spikes, I'd suggest trying to do it against them first. It's going to take more than optimism to outplay, outsmart, and beat a lot of these top players. You're ignoring the credit that a lot of them have earned.



I didn't get any post confused. Here's the statement that Redjin and I were questioning;

That sentence as a whole implies you've beaten and surpassed high level spikes. Now, I'm assuming we're talking about SCIV... unless everyone in your previous communities questioned your play and knowledge, as well.
Also you've still yet to answer Redjin's and my question. :/ The closest you've gotten was

To my understanding, Kenhowe hasn't played offline since SCIV first came out. Even then, he only won local events, if he won at all. Now, he's just a online player, no where near the level of a "high level spike."



Well, confidence is never a bad thing. But harsh reality is harsh.
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ugh I really don't feel like typing all this stuff again (dunno why my page just refreshed) so i'll just give a condensed version.

The Yall's momma negro's was a joke. No I don't know which high level-spikes i'm better in this game. Yes I do feel I will surpass the high level spikes on this game with time. yes I was referring to previous communities and games I've played before; the way I played was always in question but I started coming out on top. I never said Kenhowe was a high level spike, I said he was a spike imo, and there's spikes i've surpassed. Yes I have confidence but I know that's not the only thing it takes to win, but if you don't have confidence in your abilities then you might as well say you already lost.

@ HRD there's no animosty my way I promise. The reason why I was giving reddjinn a hard time cause he asked me a question like that after saying meeting me somewhere to get some games in/record wasn't worth the money or something; but yet he questions my post in such a way. To me that's like "man I'm not waisting money like that just for a video game; but why you think you better than higher players shogun?" which makes me feel like "why the fuck you worried about where I feel I place when you don't want to put in effort to play me?"
 
Well a spike would be a top competitior, one that competes wins and dominates on a regular basis, Not some random guy you met on the street that plays safe....

Thats why I asked what I asked, and yea you pretty much answered it in one way or another by saying you've actually surpassed nobody... I look forward to seeing your johnyness rise to new heights...

Wasnt disrespecting you or telling you where I thought you were at, I was just wondering who you thought was a spike that you surpassed, simple.
 
Well I'm going by the idea that you can be a spike and still not place high.

I know hella people in hella games that play just to win but......suck at winning. I feel I passed alot of those already. As for the higher level spikes in this game I don't know yet. High level spikes in other games, yea I started to pass them.

True enough higher game level's of play requires some form of wanting to win, but doesn't mean you can't throw ya johnny game in there. At least imo I feel that way.
 
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