Aluminum Foil Hat Time! Conspiracy Theories?

Not believing something because there's no evidence for it is not a definition of faith you'll find in any dictionary.

Atheism is not e belief IN something, it is a disbelief of something. But that's a dumb subject that's been run into the ground.
Aren't we just playing with words here? Even if you don't buy into the various concepts of God presented to you. Every individual has their own perception of the world he lives in. Atheists do have beliefs; some alternate explanation that has to be proven.

It is faith because of the uncertainty.

I think it works both ways.
 
You can't say an atheist runs on faith when it goes against the very definition of atheism, lol. You're just looking outside of the meaning to make your own criteria of what faith is.
 
Yeah, that's a misconception people have about atheism. Just because I'm confident that God isn't real (due to having to be skeptic about it) doesn't mean that I'm absolutely certain it can't be a possibility. If you're saying that confidence in itself is based on faith then I know what you mean, but that is irrelevant from the actual definition of the words. It's also impossible to make any sort of choice/decision without it being based on some assumption to begin with, so if you want to call every choice 'faith' then it's missing the point.

But that's agnosticsm, not atheism, isn't it? Or is it?

*confused*
 
Agnostic is supposed to mean you're simply on the fence about it. You see no reason to believe in god, but no reason to be atheist about it. You're very undecided. But I highly doubt any reasonable atheist actually feels with complete certainty that God is by all means theoretically impossible. The difference is in how realistic it is, IMO.
 
You either believe in gods or you don't. To be agnostic just means you don't know. I think it's as silly to use agnosticism as an answer to "Do you believe in god?" as it is to claim it after the question "Where are you?". Cowardly people need to use it to get away from the stigma attached to atheism though.
 
Unrelated, I read recently that about 90% of scientists are atheists. lolll

i think it is a natural side effect of learning stuff.

as far as the moon conspiracy goes, i only see one point that really makes me go "wtf". why is it that we were able to land there 40 years ago, did it a couple times and decided, "welp, there is nothing more to learn/harvest/study here." it seems stupid to me that we have not gone back or even tried to to study it more, and that no other developing nations ever went there to drop a flag and be able to say "we made it, too." this alone makes me think that we never made it there in the first place.

as per UFOs...i saw some fucked up shit over south phoenix a couple years ago with my own eyes, which has led me to obsess a bit about the things.

as far as god goes, i've always thought of the world in the sense that star wars could have been real. that is to say that i believe in the force. there are most certainly forces and creatures that exist that which i cannot explain and nor can any sort of science...yet. there are things which govern all matter that can be manipulated, which we don't see and don't understand...yet. these mysterious things, to me, are "god" per se. they are not one conscious being that created everything, they are simply the as yet unknown.

400 years ago when lightning struck your corn and it burned and 2 of your kids had to starve that winter and the other 9 kids had to eat them to survive, it was "god" that did it to you as punishment for something. now, we know that it was a shift in the polar something because of a meteor strike and then cold water movement in the pacific and then high pressure fronts from the water making a storm season and charging the air with static and blah blah blah blah. the point is it is no longer a mystery.

i believe that all things will eventually be figured out and explained rationally through physics, but until they are, they remain a mystery, which i refer to as "the force". if you wish to call that mystery "god" then suit yourself.

page, did you know that the US government actually did develop a "gay bomb" for the air force with some of the patriot act money? Wright Laboratories, the creator, actually won a nobel prize in 2007 for it, but the air force guys refused to accept it, lol. basically it was a chemical weapon that mixed concentrated male and female pheromones and tricked human brains into accepting both and made everyone pretty much want to fuck whoever they were closest to. i think it is awesome.

@kvasir- an easy way to define agnosticism is to think of it outside of a religious context. think about bigfoot or aliens instead of "god". do you believe in aliens? do you believe that life exists anywhere in the universe outside of earth? if you don't think so because you have never seen them, but it makes sense that they could be there, then you are an agnostic in terms if alien life. the same thing applies to religious beliefs.

also i think kingace is right as for atheism. belief in no god is a leap of faith just the same as belief in a god is. atheism is not a lack of faith, it is simply a lack of faith in a god of any sort. you can argue all day about evidence and whatnot, but the very notion of faith is drawing a conclusion without conclusive evidence, so any debate about defining by the presence of evidence or lack thereof is kinda mute. depending on who you ask, there is plenty of evidence either way, anyway. can i ever prove that god does not exist? it is not possible, if only because of the very nature of 'faith'. therefore i make a leap of faith of my own that science will eventually explain all the world's mysteries and god does not exist.
 
You either believe in gods or you don't. To be agnostic just means you don't know. I think it's as silly to use agnosticism as an answer to "Do you believe in god?" as it is to claim it after the question "Where are you?". Cowardly people need to use it to get away from the stigma attached to atheism though.
Yeah (although I wouldn't necessarily call them cowards). Taking all things into consideration that one can, all one can come up with is "I don't know." And while I don't know how we came to exist, I can still safely say in my experience that I haven't exactly met God after all this time either. So I'd rather say he's not there than say, "I can't decide", because that'd just be holding back what I really think.
 
@kvasir- an easy way to define agnosticism is to think of it outside of a religious context. think about bigfoot or aliens instead of "god". do you believe in aliens? do you believe that life exists anywhere in the universe outside of earth? if you don't think so because you have never seen them, but it makes sense that they could be there, then you are an agnostic in terms if alien life. the same thing applies to religious beliefs.

also i think kingace is right as for atheism. belief in no god is a leap of faith just the same as belief in a god is. atheism is not a lack of faith, it is simply a lack of faith in a god of any sort.

I think there is probably life elsewhere, but I'm also agnostic. I think there is, but I don't know.

Also believing there is no god is not the same thing as not believing in gods. It doesn't take faith to not believe things.

Edit: I don't think I've been clear. The point I've been trying to make is that agnosticism isn't even a position. It's possible to not know, and not believe. It's possible to believe and not know.
 
belief in no god is a leap of faith just the same as belief in a god is.
...
the very notion of faith is drawing a conclusion without conclusive evidence
If you want "evidence" for why choosing atheism is not a choice based on faith, then refer to my last post to Kvasir. The confidence behind rejecting god is based on the everyday experience that there is no sign of him. Plus, we have no way of measuring god in the first place. It's purely an idea, and a loophole one at that. This is the "evidence" for why believing in atheism cannot technically be faith, as it is based on a conclusion with substance. And that substance has to do with our 5 senses not even picking up on anything resembling god, however religions may describe god.
 
Atheism exists on a sliding scale. At 10 you have total, 100% disbelief in any gods, at 5 you have agnosticism, at 1 you have certainty in a god or gods. Very few people exist on either extreme. I'd put myself down at about 8 on a bad day, 9 on a good day.

Having faith in the belief of something that doesn't exist and has no evidence is not the same as having faith in the belief that something that doesn't exist and has no evidence actually doesn't exist because it has no evidence. You can go with the standard Russell's Teapot train of thought, or Zeus, or His Noodlyness if you're feeling especially sarcastic, but the premise is the same: the burden of proof does not fall to the people who choose not to believe in things that not only have no evidence for their existence, but probably can't have evidence for their existence.

Basically, the only reason anyone is labelled as an atheist in the first place is because religions are as powerful as they are. Is a Christian considered an atheist when it comes to Norse gods? Because they are.

Most atheist don't look at life through a omnipresent prism of atheism, which is another key difference. My lack of belief in a god doesn't inform my every action, and it doesn't have to. As a religious person, everything I did, every thought I had, was formed through filtering my thoughts through doctrine.

But this is a tangent and whatever whatever.

Lobo, I think I'd heard something about that. Listening to some psychology lectures a while back I was shocked to learn that there had actually been studies done on using stimulus and behavioural modification on gay men to see if it was possible to force them into reacting like straight men. The experiment culminated in one of the researches hiring a prostitute and then having the gay dude have sex with her to see if he would react like a straight man. And he did. It was all kinds of fucked up, and I'd look it up now if I weren't so tired.
 
have you not looked at the comsos? at clouds? have you not seen complex, living organisms with your own eyes, and touched and smelled them? for a person of faith, these things are direct and conclusive evidence of the existence of god, as he is the only thing that could possibly have created them.

see how this works? the definition of 'evidence' as it pertains to faith is completely subjective, and leans heavily on the very notion of faith in and of itself, which is why depending on who you ask it will require a leap of faith to believe either way. atheists tend to get upset when you tie their lack of belief in with a leap of faith, because it is natural to not see it that way. you have to think of how it is perceived by those who do have religious faith, though, to understand.
 
I once thought the term atheist didn't quite do enough to describe my beliefs, but I've found a more agreeable definition. I believe there is very most likely no god and god is fairy tale stuff. This is the standard definition of atheism, but the way I would describe my beliefs are: I do not believe in a higher power. I take this to mean even if god was real and standing right in front of me, I would still maintain my position as an atheist. You have no way to quantify what a "higher power" is. Nobody does. God's moral compass is not better than my moral compass and my moral compass is not better than his. God may send me to hell, but that does not make him "right", and the threat of him doing so does not compel me to change my view of right and wrong.
 
I agree... Who is god to put me on this earth only to have me follow his ways to get to "Heaven" I only get to live once... Im gonna do whatever the fuck I want... My morals are just as good as any christians I just decide to enjoy more of what life has to offer and not abstain from pleasures that are "Sins"

I cannot believe that people honestly believe in a book that talks about a "Virgin" getting pregnant without having sex... SERIOUSLY? I can lock 100 virgins up with each other for 1,000,000 years... and without a male somewhere in the mix they WILL NOT get pregnant. LoL

Another seriously a guy lived in a whale? Like for real? walking around making fires and shit? Jonah lived in a whale? again I say... got ate... survived... wtf?

Noah - He got 2 of every mammal on earth to come to him in one exact location? and these mammals eat each other for food? How the fuck did he send them the msg? Did he mass txt them? Did he send them e-mails and be like hey meet me on this big ass rock, there will be a huge ass boat and yall will calmly get on it in single file order two by two.. LOL SERIOUSLY ???????????????? how the fuck can you think this shit is true?

Also god used to kill nations in the blink of an eye in the old testament... Why is it ok for him to murder and not us? Why does he get to be jealous if we worship other gods but we cant be? Why did he get to impregnate mary without being married to her first? Yet its ok for him to do all this...
Killing all the first born sons in the middle of the night in a whole country... Seriously this is the shit yall faithfully believe in?

Religion was made up to make "order" on earth... Period.
 
if by "order on earth" you actually meant "money" then i agree.

Money as well, but men were savages and needed some type of natural laws/order... What better way to make men somewhat behave then by telling them if they are good they goto a place filled with streets of gold and blah blah and if they are bad they goto a place of fire and brimstone and burn in eternal damnation
 
have you not looked at the comsos? at clouds? have you not seen complex, living organisms with your own eyes, and touched and smelled them? for a person of faith, these things are direct and conclusive evidence of the existence of god, as he is the only thing that could possibly have created them.

see how this works? the definition of 'evidence' as it pertains to faith is completely subjective, and leans heavily on the very notion of faith in and of itself, which is why depending on who you ask it will require a leap of faith to believe either way. atheists tend to get upset when you tie their lack of belief in with a leap of faith, because it is natural to not see it that way. you have to think of how it is perceived by those who do have religious faith, though, to understand.

That's it, though. I've been religious. I was raised religious. I know exactly what it's like. And that's why I talked about seeing everything through that viewpoint. Of course, as a religious person, everything I saw confirmed my beliefs, because that's all I knew.

Seeing something amazing and beautiful like a galaxy or a sunset is only proof for someone who needs no proof. It's not actual proof of anything, which is why I also said that most religious beliefs CANNOT be proven. They're totally divorced from reason and science. That's what faith is -- that's the literal dictionary definition of it. If you don't ask the question with a specific answer already in your mind then you realize that there is a leap of faith involved in believing something that has no evidence, and there really isn't one in not believing it. If you weren't supposed to believe in a god, then there would be no reason to.

There is faith involved in not believing, but it's not the kind of faith you're talking about. It's a faith in yourself, in mankind. It's a belief that you don't need all the answers, that it's okay to not know something. God of the gaps is a real thing that applies across the board for religious belief. Where did the universe come from? I don't know; nobody knows. And that's just fucking fine. How does the mind work? I don't know; nobody knows, but it's orders of magnitude more interesting to hear actual science and philosophy on the subject than it is to be told what to believe from texts. I can look at something amazing and complex and realize that I don't know what it is or how it works or why it works, and that I will probably never know, and then move on. For many religious people that's such a scary fucking option: to live life without having all the answers. It's genuinely frightening at first, but you get used to it.

In reality, in concrete terms, not believing in god is on the level of not believing in unicorns and goblins. Once you get over the initial shock, it is actually the same as that. There is as much faith involved in me not believing in the religion I was raised in as there is in me not believing that there are shadow people living in my closet. Most days I don't even think about it.
 
If religion is man-made, then it's a pretty amazing feat, what with how intricate it all is.
(Just an observation. When I think about it, I guess I'm more neutral/agnostic/cowardly/whatever on this matter)
 
If religion is man-made, then it's a pretty amazing feat, what with how intricate it all is.
(Just an observation. When I think about it, I guess I'm more neutral/agnostic/cowardly/whatever on this matter)

We make just as intricate books these days... If not more intricate... think if there was ONE only really good novel to read in the world what would everyone be reading??

and of course it was man made... I think we are the gods of the universe.... NOTHING out there is as smart as we are. Or has the ability to be as smart as we are and do the things we do...

Look around we dont fit in on this planet... We are unlike anything else on here.

We ARE aliens... :) ( I love these talks when Im ripped... ) Wish I was home with a bowl right now
 
There is as much faith involved in me not believing in the religion I was raised in as there is in me not believing that there are shadow people living in my closet.
Since you mentioned indirectly ghost(shadow people) sitings I'm reminded of this thing I learned the other day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound#Human_reactions_to_infrasound

Apparently low frequency sounds can really fuck with you, make you feel fear and dread for no reason that's apparent to you. It affects different people in different ways. And bursts of certain frequencies of infrasound can even resonate with your eyeball's natural frequency creating visual anomalies in your peripheral vision and are commonly mistaken for ghosts. Without knowing this it's completely rational to believe ghosts might be real after an infrasound experience.
 
Yep. Gotta agree with page especially on this part, "Seeing something amazing and beautiful like a galaxy or a sunset is only proof for someone who needs no proof." Also, I was raised Catholic as well and the hardest part about taking a stance on atheism was merely breaking out of the social conditioning that it's bad. People are made to feel guilty if they reject god.

Off-topic: The best thing I learned about having opinions is that you shouldn't bother having one on a specific subject unless you're actually informed on what the top minds behind it say as well. They've spent more time on the subject than anyone else. It's like having a strong opinion about winning at soulcalibur if you haven't even played anyone good from this community.
 
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