1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's great that a few of you are ready to marry Hilde and all, honestly. Now can somebody explain why she's good? Why they think she's better than chars like Taki, Raph, Setsuka, etc?
 
Nori said:
It's great that a few of you are ready to marry Hilde and all, honestly. Now can somebody explain why she's good? Why they think she's better than chars like Taki, Raph, Setsuka, etc?
Click to expand...

Take a look at her combo thread, and watch the first video.

She has a 102 damage combo I believe, and has a ridiculous ring out combo. She's very different to use, but I have a feeling she's going to be high/top tier once people start to master her.
 
Well, you hilde players almost had me on her "awesomeness" until I started messing around with her.

As was said, the only way you'll get any of these high damage long range ring out juggles is if your opponent whiffs a pretty heavy attack or a high that was ducked under slightly.

Post GI isn't effective as all the opponent needs to do is hold block (unless it's a JI) and none of the big charge combos will hit.

As I see it, against an opponent that's playing a safe game, and especially against characters who are GOOD at playing it safe, Hilde can't hit squat. That's not to say that she's low tier, but all this talk of her being godly or even just upper-mid tier is all bunk.

If this was SC2 where stepping and spacing were GREAT and backdashing was actually viable then it might be a different story. As it stands though, SC4 is NOT the game for spacing induced whiffs and the characters that need them to succeed.
 
When starting off, this stuff is indeed stuff that you want to take in, however i played X going from SC all the way to SC4, and to be honest, im starting to take a diffrent approach in finding a character.


For years now i have been a hardcore X player, and although i love her alot, im starting to think that possibly X doesnt fit into my THOUGHT process as a hardcore fighting gamer.

I have noticed that when it comes to the actuall COMBAT part of a 3D figher, i cant seem to understand the flow of battle. And im thinking this may be partly due to the character im playing. If i cant understand the character and mix the moves that X has and use them to my advantage to beat my opponent, then whats the point unless im just playing for fun?

Im looking at other characters, not because i plan on dropping X, but im looking to see of other characters may jive alittle better with the way i think about battle, even if the character may have moves that i may not like, if im able to utalize the moves better in battle, then my chances of winning may increase.


You mentioned earlier that people usually pick popular characters and jump on the banwagan, and yes that is true, however im sure that you also have heard of some people who have the best (name character here) in the world, and for some reason THEY are the ONLY ones that can make that characther work, eventhough that character SUCKS BALLZ!

Well the reason why is beause they UNDERSTAND the character, and can make the characters moves work for them in battle! And the reason why they can do that, is because the moves the character uses works well for that persons train of thought!

by Firegod from CaliburForum.com
Click to expand...

Just like he says. In every game there is that one guy that plays that one character that everyone thinks is complete crap and yet for some reason completely dominates them. I agree completely with Firegod's thoughts on character choice. Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about picking a "top tier" character, because like he said, the character can be the greatest in the game, but if you cannot identify with the movement of it, its gonna do you no good.

Just pick a character you understand the flow of. I have played against Siegfrieds and Nightmares that seemed faster than my Misturugi or Cassandra, and not because of frame rates, but because those players have a great flow with their characters. Just find someone you can wrap your brain around.
 
Hmm there is a lot of true to what people say here... but even if you got a Top Tier char you still need skill. Well yeah Yoshi is a top tier because of the oh-so-many-broken attacks that he haves. But by far i haven't seen any Yoshi getting far on World Tournaments... i always see Taki, Kilik and Mitsu. There is no such thing as top or low tier... it depends on the players... Now there might be some character that are "user friendly" and they can smash their way thru the top ten... [cough: mitsus anyone?] I've been to tournaments [im not claiming i know all] and i think it depends on what game you bring... by far Mind Game on this game is the best tool you can have. Oh well enough said... also... too many Yoshis, so i still don;t know if most of them suck or that the character is quite simple to understand.
 
Lostword said:
Hmm there is a lot of true to what people say here... but even if you got a Top Tier char you still need skill. Well yeah Yoshi is a top tier because of the oh-so-many-broken attacks that he haves. But by far i haven't seen any Yoshi getting far on World Tournaments... i always see Taki, Kilik and Mitsu. There is no such thing as top or low tier... it depends on the players... Now there might be some character that are "user friendly" and they can smash their way thru the top ten... [cough: mitsus anyone?] I've been to tournaments [im not claiming i know all] and i think it depends on what game you bring... by far Mind Game on this game is the best tool you can have. Oh well enough said... also... too many Yoshis, so i still don;t know if most of them suck or that the character is quite simple to understand.
Click to expand...

Right well i'm a yoshi player... you should pick yoshi and play me since hes simple... Sounds Fair...
 
Nuez said:
i must the only retard that can't get 2aB down with the yosh...

simple stuff
Click to expand...

Yea its hard at first but once you get the timing it is actually not that hard... not simple! but not as hard as you probably originally thought... the yoshi soul arena on caliburforum.com has tons of ways and tips to help you with iMCF or 2a:B

But I know Lost can do this move no problem since yoshi is quite simple and everyone sucks that plays with him
 
RedDjinn said:
But I know Lost can do this move no problem since yoshi is quite simple and everyone sucks that plays with him
Click to expand...
IMO, Yoshi is pretty damn easy to play. What's so hard w/him? aB+K is his best high easily, and leads to retarded shit on CH. 4B+K, A is a great low that leads to a combo. Dragonfly alone is fantastic. Dragonfly B gives adv on block, free combo on regular hit. Dragonfly K, combo, RO. His throws IMO are the best in the game. Scare somebody in Drgaonfly, cancel throw. 65 damage either way. Rainbow Drop is one of the most feared throws in the game. I know Yoshi players are very defensive about their char but honestly, after playing this guy for a while, he's not THAT hard to win w/. Shit, I can tell you this as Cervy/Cass player, he's not that hard. Cass/Sophie are dirty easy, so is Amy and Yoshi is almost there too.
 
Nori said:
IMO, Yoshi is pretty damn easy to play. What's so hard w/him? aB+K is his best high easily, and leads to retarded shit on CH. 4B+K, A is a great low that leads to a combo. Dragonfly alone is fantastic. Dragonfly B gives adv on block, free combo on regular hit. Dragonfly K, combo, RO. His throws IMO are the best in the game. Scare somebody in Drgaonfly, cancel throw. 65 damage either way. Rainbow Drop is one of the most feared throws in the game. I know Yoshi players are very defensive about their char but honestly, after playing this guy for a while, he's not THAT hard to win w/. Shit, I can tell you this as Cervy/Cass player, he's not that hard. Cass/Sophie are dirty easy, so is Amy and Yoshi is almost there too.
Click to expand...

LoL Nori.... yea hes easy but I didnt see you do shit with yoshi.... sooo easy at lower level at high level not that easy... Hence the reason you dont see yoshi's winning every tourney... Hes simple to beat noobs/scrubs with, not simple to be expierienced players with... but argue if you want... whatever
 
was playing a good nightmare the other day and was pretty damn surprised at how many really fast, safe moves he can use for pressure, and the goddamn double kick from that running stance RO's from all over, even flat on the ground

sure he's so low?
 
Nuez said:
was playing a good nightmare the other day and was pretty damn surprised at how many really fast, safe moves he can use for pressure, and the goddamn double kick from that running stance RO's from all over, even flat on the ground

sure he's so low?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing... NM is pretty dirty once you see a really good one...
 
Tier list?

An agreed upon tier list? Nah and with 1.03 coming out, that'll probably turn tiers on their head. Yoshi seems about the only character agreed on being S tier.
 
Tier list?

Tiers are pretty meaningless, as most people agree. Player skill is what wins matches, not the select screen.

Though it's fun to list characters in an order of how effective they *can* be in a match up vs the rest of the cast, you can't really count it because that would assume that both players playing are exactly even in skill and knowledge, as well as very good at the game... which is a rare occurance to begin with.

Basically, every character has a chance to win. From a novice's standpoint it's harder to win with some than others, but that's the point. Choose who you like and make them good. If you like Rock, you just have to work that much harder and if you like Amy, you work less harder. Simple as that.

We should list casual/novice tiers like so:

S: Characters that are easy to learn to win with it:
Amy, Sophie, Cassy, Yoshi, Mitsurugi

A: Characters that involve a bit of a learning curve before winning easily is a possibility:
everyone who isn't listed in another tier.

B: Characters that are hard to learn, and will be an uphill struggle to win in certain matches, but still can win:
Rock, Seong-Mina, Tira, Apprentice, Yoda/Vader

That's pretty much it. Don't take that as sarcasm, it's an honest example. The Novice-Intermidate-Good players shouldn't care about tiers. They should care about learning the game proper, and learning to win with a character they feel inspired to play and get better with in competative arenas.

The "elite"-"very good" players also don't really need tiers, they utilize experience and personal mind games that usually transcend the character they use, and really just focuses on their mindset, ability to read an opponent, reaction time and defense.

So all in all, IMO- focus less on tiers and more on your own development as a player. Trying to say that as un-condecending as possible.

cha cha
 
Tier list?

Tier lists arent pointless. It's just to simply show who is the best character. It's not like using the low tiers means instant loss (unless you play smash bros :) ), it just means that it takes significantly more skill to win.

For new people, its like a security blanket type thing. I'm just used to it.

I also have another question: How are most competitive tournies played out? Like, is algol/yoda/DV/apprentice banned, do you play with weapon effects, custom armour, etc.
 
Tier list?

Competaive play is always standard VS, never Special VS with weapon effects and such. Though it may be fun for some people Special VS is completley broken and very uncompetative.

Only characters who are banned is Yoda/Vader, because they are currently console specific. Algol and Apprentice are legal.

Anyways, there is a tier discussion in this section already, go look through it and see which opinions you agree with.

http://www.8wayrun.com/f21/early-impression-of-tiers-t238/

cha cha
 
Tier list?

1w1ngedangel said:
Thanks. But what about making a custom character, like giving Astaroth something other than the exocutionars stuff?
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, that's illegal. Custom characters have different hit boxes so many of their moves don't function the same way. I've heard that many of Talim's moves miss when they normally shouldn't if used with a regular (i.e., not child-sized) character.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom