Raphael General Discussion

More 4A abuse
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PLEASE do not abuse this move. -17 on block is a LOT against real characters (30%+) so be careful. Risk V Reward here is pretty low; however use it when you have good situations to do so and you will be ok.

-2 on hit is lame, but it is a good time to throw out 44B (against aggressive opponents)
 
4A shouldn't be getting blocked. There's so many strings and combo's that gets stuffed with this move(Mitsu's 66BB for starters, which will force them to 66B changeup).

The move is good for the evasion. Especially when they're non-stop throwing combo's/strings at you and you can't seem to get an edge in.
 
BelovedChild said:
4A shouldn't be getting blocked. There's so many strings and combo's that gets stuffed with this move(Mitsu's 66BB for starters, which will force them to 66B changeup).

The move is good for the evasion. Especially when they're non-stop throwing combo's/strings at you and you can't seem to get an edge in.
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Your right 4A just whiffs :p.
 
If Mitsu wants to use 66BB against me, that's great, I'm not using 4A to stuffing that. If anything I use VE for that purpose when I can get away with it.
 
Hudathan said:
If Mitsu wants to use 66BB against me, that's great, I'm not using 4A to stuffing that. If anything I use VE for that purpose when I can get away with it.
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If the string is completed, as you said earlier, 4B is your BEST bet.

Btw 4A can slip past the 2nd hit of Asura, as well as hit kilik before he can block if he only does B+K. Pretty useful imo.
 
4A DOESN'T WHIFF on the 2nd hit of Mitsu's 66BB, you did it wrong. Go back and try again.

4B like I said Trolt? I think you meant 4A, because 4B wont do shit against that move, it's a mid.

You can VE that move? Okay in ANY SITUATION VE WILL EVADE AS WELL AS 4A, VE is a better option.

...Let me get this straight, VE vertical evades to Raphael's left.....doesn't 4A go right? I can't remember....

Also another question....using iWR A to counter step options at mid range, useful? It's a slow move, and I'm not sure of many mid options that are going to stuff it on reaction from opponents, but I'm experimenting with it and it's getting decent results so far....though I don't play VERY HIGH Tournament quality players, so I'm not getting punished for every single mistake like I should be.
 
I think it's -14/15 on block? 6BB is just too weak to me, even with the prep followups I usually don't score that much damage. ALOT of good players love GIing your prep work too...that's always fun.

I always find interrupting better, because if they're scared to commit to any of their combo's, that's alot more chances you can be on the offensive.

Ruiner
 
You block Mitsu's 66BB and punish with 4B, same with his 2KB. 4A can be useful but not to be abused, the norm for raph. I personally would rather step~VE and learn all the applications for that over where 4A can be applied.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Hudathan, speak of the devil o_O

You'd be on there, ofcourse, but you don't play online. Sad, because I know you're a much better player then I....(Pendragonfall I don't know, but the other Raphaels....)
 
4B is -22 I believe? Mitsu's 66BB and 2KB are THAT BAD ON BLOCK where you can do the 4B BBB:B rushdown? Seriously? If this is true then yes, 4A isn't needed here.

again, I want to know any serious moves that be can VE'd, but I just think 4A is good for where VE wont work.

As an evasive maneuver, VE just seems to suck, seriously. It's like a regular sidestep is better. The move has to be EXTREMELY LINEAR for VE to successfully dodge it, at least from my experiences.

Anyone have a list of moves that are commonly seen that can be VE'd on reaction? You still have prep VE shenanigans, but that's after lots of Prep A/prep SEA B fear.
 
Yeah dude....Mitsu's 66BB also gives Raph a free 66 combo. I punish with 4B at close range and 66 at max range
 
BelovedChild said:
4B is -22 I believe? Mitsu's 66BB and 2KB are THAT BAD ON BLOCK where you can do the 4B BBB:B rushdown? Seriously? If this is true then yes, 4A isn't needed here.

again, I want to know any serious moves that be can VE'd, but I just think 4A is good for where VE wont work.

As an evasive maneuver, VE just seems to suck, seriously. It's like a regular sidestep is better. The move has to be EXTREMELY LINEAR for VE to successfully dodge it, at least from my experiences.

Anyone have a list of moves that are commonly seen that can be VE'd on reaction? You still have prep VE shenanigans, but that's after lots of Prep A/prep SEA B fear.
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looks like i dont' need to explain myself. I think mitsu's can hit check with 66BB?? i'm not too sure about that.

But anyways VE is terrible if used only to step, as it's 4 frames slower and it seems like you don't go as far and deep as a regular step.

VE gets you VE A or grab mixup .. as VE BB is NOT a NC (doesn't seem like it)

step can get you 22~VEB:B, 33KB, grab or just something simple like BB.

Chances are if you can fit in a VE, you can fit in a regular step.
 
looks like i dont' need to explain myself. I think mitsu's can hit check with 66BB?? i'm not too sure about that.
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This doesn't really matter...you should never 4A after 66B (mitsu). Yes, 4 and everything after that are guaranteed if they do 66BB; however, if they only do 6B, and you 4A...they'll block (at best) and you eat BB (or something worse, not sure about mitsu punish) or a throw mixup. They could also 2A, or 2KB both would probably hit if you throw out lots of 4A. 66B is 6BB punishable (or BB, or 3B if you prefer) so just block and punish.
 
Okay, Piggy's latest info nailed it, I take back the 4A argument entirely.

HOWEVER, I don't take back that it is a useful move that shouldn't be ignored in Raphael's pokes. It is however, not a Mitsu 66B counter.

I have this brief window of availability until I begin Paramedic school, so I'm going to revitalize(aka, make my own) Preparation guide for new Raphael users that are interested in learning him. It'll cover all the commands you can use in prep, what use they have, what will own it, what characters can easily counter it, etc...so any input you guys want to make SURE is going to be in the Prep guide you can feel free to post it here or in my "new to 8wayrun" thread. I'd appreciate all input from Hudathan, Pendragonsfall, Trolt, Egg, Belial, and anyone else I haven't mentioned that has a solid understanding of Raphael and how to play him effectively.

Ruiner
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

I like playing the game but I'm too busy these days. I'm barely keeping up with this game and has not had a chance to even learn SF4 on a rudimentary level. I'm content with participating in majors and getting some games in person with my local community as far as this game is concerned right now.
 
WuHT said:
looks like i dont' need to explain myself. I think mitsu's can hit check with 66BB?? i'm not too sure about that.

But anyways VE is terrible if used only to step, as it's 4 frames slower and it seems like you don't go as far and deep as a regular step.

VE gets you VE A or grab mixup .. as VE BB is NOT a NC (doesn't seem like it)

step can get you 22~VEB:B, 33KB, grab or just something simple like BB.

Chances are if you can fit in a VE, you can fit in a regular step.
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Let me offer some thoughts on this since it's something that comes up in my game a lot.

The options you listed such as 22B, 33KB, etc requires you to commit to 8wr, not just step. SCIV continues the trend of punishing 8wr by allowing many moves to become counter hits. It's the reason why step~punish is no longer a good criteria in order to judge a character's effectiveness due to the risks involved. Characters that possess static punishment options from standing are now much more effective, especially if they have decent step (not 8wr) speed. For example Hilde would not be as effective if her charge moves were 8wr moves.

As for VE being limited in terms of stepping ability and damage followups, that's not how I apply it. A single step~VE at the right time will get raph to the opponent's side/back in many situations. Tekken players like Millionz can back me up and know the kind of situation I'm talking about. Avoiding options with VE gives you a powerful option in the guaranteed VE A, and VE A on hit puts raph in one of the best situations available to him. I can go on for a bit that I'll leave it at that. To me correct VE application is often more viable than fishing with 8wr.

Beloved - A prep guide would be a fine idea, even if it begins as a consolidation of basic facts such as frame data and properties. How about you start a new thread and edit the top post as we add things to it such as match up specific info. Once it comes together I'll sticky.
 
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