Soulcalibur: Balanced or Not?
- Thread starter Cahin
- Start date
ShadowCollector
[09] Warrior
Err what? Tira overpowered against Talim? That's called a match-up and Rock/Maxi/Seong-mi-na/Talim have alot of bad match-ups.
Algol is cheap once they bubble shield like scrubs. Yoda is the WORST character in SCIV. No dashes of any kind not to mention his B's and A's can ring him out off a sidestep or 4G. Yoda is terribly weak in the game.
You forgot about the occasional Setsuka or Kilik player that makes the semi-finals THEN gets stomped by Amy/Ivy.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
You really think competent players didn't already try exhausting their options and strategies? "Just think outside the box more, you haven't thought of everything yet."
This notion loses all its meaning after the top minds realize there's no getting around certain things. There are rare exceptions once in a while, but for the most part, the established tier list is the way it is because it has stood the test of time. Telling good players they're not trying hard enough is just sheer ignorance on your part and even a little insulting.
Cahin
[08] Mercenary
I honestly don't use paragraphs for multiple reasons. Mostly because it is the internet and me investing time into splitting it up just doesn't seem worth it. I was in a hurry because I was just trying to finish up that post cause I had to do something. I am sorry however and will try to make posts presentable from now on.
I believe that tiers are for people who like to admit failure. That may seem a little cocky or even juvenile, but I have slaughtered top tier characters with little to no trouble because I adapted. I dislike people saying things like "So-and-so is to OP." I say get over it. It is rather annoying hearing people whine about it. I think the good players are the ones who help the game evolve. That means learning how to beat a character, no matter who they are.
In response to the rude comment made by the little girl with the picture post. First off, you misquoted me. Congratulations are in order. You just made a fool of yourself. Second, you obviously read that post wrong. I never stated I've lost to Yoda. I merely stated I disliked him and his rather annoying style. I haven't ever lost to a Yoda player. Thank you genius. I hope you enjoy the fact that you didn't have the mental prowess to comprehend that. Have a nice day.
ShadowCollector
[09] Warrior
I guess he never got bubble shielded or doom comboed from the middle of the map.
ShadowCollector
[09] Warrior
Are you serious or just trolling? Tiers are for high level players. If you play online alot and don't play offline competitively don't even worry about tiers.
Hilde AND algol are OP with which there is no way to "Adapt" to the Bubble shield abuse or being doom combo'd off one mistake. Hilde has a Low risk/High reward combo setup however that doesn't necessarily make her OP. It's the RO potential and the Doom combo which makes ANY player frustrated to fight.
Who cares if you beat an Ivy or Amy Online? Try fighting them offline against a TOP-TIER player then re-edit your post. You can only adapt to a character to a degree, it really comes down to adapting to your opponent.
Cahin
[08] Mercenary
I am also sorry for seeming that way. I'm referring to one of those rare instances where players are able to find things that nobody else has. It may seem like ignorance, but it's meant as encouragement. Keep going is what I mean. Keep discovering. I do understand what you are saying though, Vincent. I apologize if it came off that way.
Yes, I have been bubble shielded and doom comboed. I didn't like it. So I beat the player. Then kept beating them even after they were KO'ed.
Cahin
[08] Mercenary
I'd love to play top tier players, but I don't live in a tourney worthy area. I dislike online play. I don't do it often.
ShadowCollector
[09] Warrior
This seems like fiction. You can't by definitive terms adapt to bubble shielding. It's abusing the camera angle to confuse the opponent's perception to know if the bubbles are coming straight at you or at the side of you. No human can adapt to it because it's literally impossible.
Doom combo is almost the same way. You get hit once that was it. You had to play a near or perfect flawless game against Hilde once they started it up.
Tiers do matter to a degree. It's much harder for Rock to fight a high tier such as Lizard/Amy/Ivy/Voldo/Set/ etc. Because he's at the bottom of the list next to Yoda. Saying "Tiers don't matter blah blah blah" Is sheer ignorance of the metagame of SCIV in general.
It is proven that Bottom tiers have a MUCH harder time fighting mid-high tiers than other high or mid tiers. Are you honestly telling me Seong-mi-na has an even match-up against Lizardman as much as Kilik does? If you say Yes then I think you don't comprehend the full spectrum of the game yet.
It will come down to the player but at the end of the day tiers are there for a reason. Think about WHY character are at the bottom (Rock slow start up hit frames, No Air grab, Slow recovery) and why characters are at the top (Amy's crazy recovery frames, Incredible tech traps and wake-up punishes, Etc)
Cahin
[08] Mercenary
I never stated tiers weren't important. I understand bad/good match ups and weaknesses. I respect the metagame, but almost see it as a direct challenge. It makes me eager to try harder. As far as Bubble shielding specifically, It's a memory thing. That's how I adapted. I just adjusted to memorizing where the bubbles were shot from originally and learned to stay in motion and avoid them. That's odd but it worked for me. As far as the doom comboing is concerned, I just see it coming. It is hard to compensate for, but it's possible. I honestly believe it's the player. I agree with EVERYTHING you said. I still believe though you can compensate for anything (so long as field covering nuclear explosions aren't an issue hahaha)
Malice
Super Moderator
Easier said than done.
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
You keep saying you "believe" this and that; and I think what you believe is irrelevent when there is evidence.
There has been a reality going on over the last X number of years in the tournament scene, all over the world in money matches, among top players who break down the game inside and out. You don't have to "believe" in that reality, it's plain for all to see. Tier differences don't mean unwinnable- they just mean some characters are better than others, and in an environment where you have to win more than the other guy to claim superiority, some characters aren't good.
The ideal balance is somewhere closer to more characters having a fighting chance at top level play. Now see, to me a more interesting question is can you make a balanced game without making it homogenous and stale; not "Is this game balanced", which is clearly isn't by my standards. Your standards may differ.
There has been a reality going on over the last X number of years in the tournament scene, all over the world in money matches, among top players who break down the game inside and out. You don't have to "believe" in that reality, it's plain for all to see. Tier differences don't mean unwinnable- they just mean some characters are better than others, and in an environment where you have to win more than the other guy to claim superiority, some characters aren't good.
The ideal balance is somewhere closer to more characters having a fighting chance at top level play. Now see, to me a more interesting question is can you make a balanced game without making it homogenous and stale; not "Is this game balanced", which is clearly isn't by my standards. Your standards may differ.
EminentRising
[09] Warrior
the balance in this game isnt perfect but like many have said balance only really factors in highly at top tier play involving equally skilled opponents. even then u still got ur low tier heroes.
Azazel
[12] Conqueror
Why is everyone actually tacking seriously what this noob says?
Ceirnian
[11] Champion
He may be wrong about certain things but i think this paragraph rings true in a lot of ways. Leaving the second part aside so this doesn't devolve into what it always does, I think that people use tiers as a excuse. Many times over the years I have seen people avoid top tier character (hell even high) and instead go mid-low tier. When they lose they can then fall back on the fact that their character isn't considered very good. In essence they are saying the loss is blamed on the character and not themselves.
However if a player uses a character that is considered high/top tier suddenly that excuse fades away. You can no longer blame the character for your losses and in some cases the character will become the sole reason you have won. Characters like Amy or Ivy are prime examples of this happening in current gen SC4.
[edit] what the hell this is in the casual section? Well whatever point still stands.
Juez
DragonPuncher
Oh shit, something to halp me learn! I will actually read up on that since my grammar has been suffering from all the internetz.
Ok I think you're confused on what tier list are, just because a character is top tier it doesn't mean that the character is unbeatable. It means that the character has better tools than other characters. Like comparing Maxi to Ivy, lets say they both play against the same character odds are Ivy has an answer to whatever the other character has, Maxi on the other hand on has so many things he can do. Lets do that for every character on the roster, we figure out that Ivy has an easier time against the majority of the cast so she is put higher up on the tier list. When we try to do the same for Maxi we realize that he has limited tools and has a harder time against a larger portion of the cast so we place him lower on the tier list. Does this mean that Maxi has no way to beat higher tier characters? By no means is this the case.
It doesn't matter if you try to learn how to beat a character because odds are your future opponents aren't just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. They are learning what your character can do to stop theirs and are adapting. I guess I pretty much agree with Idle
KeigoNiwa
[10] Knight
this is absolutely the BEST comment written on the internet.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
Exactly. Just play your character in a B+ or A- tier fashion and nobody will call BS. I've been doing it since 2004. Minimal problems!
Correction: Minimal complaints!
Correction: Minimal complaints!
iKotomi
[10] Knight
Was looking at sophie's frame data to try to figure out some things to do against her, and noticed that the wiki had her SC3 data too. That was some hilarious stuff.
Ceirnian
[11] Champion
I may have to copy that strat