InfestedLoli
[09] Warrior
Just was hoping to get some help on skill or techniques that someone completely new to SC to practice in order to start trying to train to become a competent competitive player!
Things for a total SC noob to practice to become good?
- Thread starter InfestedLoli
- Start date
Ruko
[09] Warrior
Sweet ive been waiting for someone to make one of these.
I'd like to know what exactly is there to practice and also at what point is practice enough to be able to play at a respectable level.
I'd like to know what exactly is there to practice and also at what point is practice enough to be able to play at a respectable level.
sirkibble2
[08] Mercenary
I'd say get yourself familiar with the basic mechanics and when you feel comfortable, go to the Soul Arenas and check out what the veterans are posting. From there, practice and develop your own style.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
Recording feature in training mode is you best friend forever. Everyone should use it when training.
Syrpiektre
[09] Warrior
I'd also say friends can help if they can get into the game. Are you completely new to SC or new to playing fighting games competitively in general?
If you're completely new definitely go through your chara's movelist a few times, practice some of the combos you find in his or her threads. You then take that into playing Arcade mode until you're pretty comfortable knowing how/when to use the moves and doing the combos well.
If you have a decent hand in the game then just find good players and play with them, ask a lot of questions if you're confused about stuff.
Tiamat, how do you generally use recording in terms of training? I use it for testing stuff but I dunno how I could use it to help me learn things beyond that :/
If you're completely new definitely go through your chara's movelist a few times, practice some of the combos you find in his or her threads. You then take that into playing Arcade mode until you're pretty comfortable knowing how/when to use the moves and doing the combos well.
If you have a decent hand in the game then just find good players and play with them, ask a lot of questions if you're confused about stuff.
Tiamat, how do you generally use recording in terms of training? I use it for testing stuff but I dunno how I could use it to help me learn things beyond that :/
HyBReDM
[08] Mercenary
Ask questions.
Other than that, watch as many videos as you can and learn the ins and outs of your character. Who you're weak/strong against, etc.
Other than that, watch as many videos as you can and learn the ins and outs of your character. Who you're weak/strong against, etc.
pixel09
[09] Warrior
While I'm new to SC, I have tried and true methods of practice from playing Tekken.
Combos: If you're just starting out find the in-game combos (usually found at the bottom of Signature Moves), and get to where you can do them. While it's ok to get on these boards to find the best combos for each character; you may want to at least try and make your own or improve upon the in-game ones.
Working on combos I've found is one of the best ways to remember moves for any given character. No one likes the boring approach of going through a movelist.. You have to do it at least once I understand, but combos help keep you reminded of it without boring you to death.
CPU: While playing the computer can hurt you when you get good, just starting out it's pretty much a must to really get any feel for your character.
There are ways to play them that can help you later, though. When you've learned some moves that are punishible for the character you are facing. You can play the cpu, just stand there and attempt to block, guard impact, and punish as much as you can to slightly improve your defense.
Just frame training: With I believe the addition of every character with a just frame input move there is no excuse for any serious player not working to have robotic execution.
Practice your character's just frame input not just until you can do it, but until it's hard to not do it. Spend 10 minutes a day practicing it, or you can go all crazy like I did one day and spend 8 straight hours practicing something.
Recording: Find something on youtube that an player was beaten with, or just something that caught your eye that they did? Record it and see what are the weaknesses of it. Situations and mixups may seem impossible to get out sometimes. Take mental notes or keep a notepad handy, and take whatever was beating you to practice mode.
Just remember to keep your answer simple, you don't want to have an answer for a situation that is overly complex. Yeah, the more complex one may net more damage, but could you trust yourself to do it in the finals of some big tournament with all that pressure and fatigue?
Other things to record are throws and low moves. Learn how to escape every character's throws and do it often, so if you do miss the escape you can remind yourself mentally that the break was say A and not B.
Low moves are a weakness for me in particular, I'll eat the slowest low move... What helps is recording that low move and blocking it over and over. Paying careful attention to how the character starts the low move. Noticing little things like Amy throws her sword in the air before doing the low in 3BA can be very helpful in knowing when a low move is coming.
Play: Don't forget to play people. Preferably offline, but if you can't online can take you a little ways if you stick to playing people you know won't lag much or use lagtactics.
Combos: If you're just starting out find the in-game combos (usually found at the bottom of Signature Moves), and get to where you can do them. While it's ok to get on these boards to find the best combos for each character; you may want to at least try and make your own or improve upon the in-game ones.
Working on combos I've found is one of the best ways to remember moves for any given character. No one likes the boring approach of going through a movelist.. You have to do it at least once I understand, but combos help keep you reminded of it without boring you to death.
CPU: While playing the computer can hurt you when you get good, just starting out it's pretty much a must to really get any feel for your character.
There are ways to play them that can help you later, though. When you've learned some moves that are punishible for the character you are facing. You can play the cpu, just stand there and attempt to block, guard impact, and punish as much as you can to slightly improve your defense.
Just frame training: With I believe the addition of every character with a just frame input move there is no excuse for any serious player not working to have robotic execution.
Practice your character's just frame input not just until you can do it, but until it's hard to not do it. Spend 10 minutes a day practicing it, or you can go all crazy like I did one day and spend 8 straight hours practicing something.
Recording: Find something on youtube that an player was beaten with, or just something that caught your eye that they did? Record it and see what are the weaknesses of it. Situations and mixups may seem impossible to get out sometimes. Take mental notes or keep a notepad handy, and take whatever was beating you to practice mode.
Just remember to keep your answer simple, you don't want to have an answer for a situation that is overly complex. Yeah, the more complex one may net more damage, but could you trust yourself to do it in the finals of some big tournament with all that pressure and fatigue?
Other things to record are throws and low moves. Learn how to escape every character's throws and do it often, so if you do miss the escape you can remind yourself mentally that the break was say A and not B.
Low moves are a weakness for me in particular, I'll eat the slowest low move... What helps is recording that low move and blocking it over and over. Paying careful attention to how the character starts the low move. Noticing little things like Amy throws her sword in the air before doing the low in 3BA can be very helpful in knowing when a low move is coming.
Play: Don't forget to play people. Preferably offline, but if you can't online can take you a little ways if you stick to playing people you know won't lag much or use lagtactics.
InfestedLoli
[09] Warrior
Thanks guys, if I have any questions I'll post them here.
This is my first SC game and I've never really played any fighting games competitively before so it's all new to me basically starting from square 1 in both respects.
Sadly I just moved to where I live now too so I don't really know many people here yet either let alone anyone that is into Soul Calibur.
I know I got an uphill battle to fight but I am willing to accept that.
This is my first SC game and I've never really played any fighting games competitively before so it's all new to me basically starting from square 1 in both respects.
Sadly I just moved to where I live now too so I don't really know many people here yet either let alone anyone that is into Soul Calibur.
I know I got an uphill battle to fight but I am willing to accept that.
MLP715
[08] Mercenary
i would recommend
1 learning all of your characters signature moves
2 set the cpu in training mode to hard and practice the sig moves
and learn what can combo from them
3 dont forget to use the up and down movement
these are the things that have been working for me. im also new too SC4 however i do play other fighting games (VF5 ,king of fighters) also play people that are better than you and watch how they move thier characters around your attacks
if your on live send me an invite we can spar my gamertag is mlp715
just let me know who you are
1 learning all of your characters signature moves
2 set the cpu in training mode to hard and practice the sig moves
and learn what can combo from them
3 dont forget to use the up and down movement
these are the things that have been working for me. im also new too SC4 however i do play other fighting games (VF5 ,king of fighters) also play people that are better than you and watch how they move thier characters around your attacks
if your on live send me an invite we can spar my gamertag is mlp715
just let me know who you are
InfestedLoli
[09] Warrior
Ok my question for today, when you're playing are you focusing more on the other players character or your own?
I find myself watching my own character more which I have a hunch is not what I am supposed to be doing, but figured I would ask anyway.
I find myself watching my own character more which I have a hunch is not what I am supposed to be doing, but figured I would ask anyway.
1der
[08] Mercenary
pixel made a lot of very good suggestions
emo_prinny...watching your own character isn't the best thing, you should be watching your opponent, watch what they are doing, look for visual cues to their next move, there are a lot of moves that you can visually see coming
overall suggestions...
learn the defensive properties of the game as a whole, spacing, blocking, throw breaks, GI, stun break, air control, wake up, etc are all very important parts of the game and the longer you can survive the more damage you can do.
Learn basic gameplay mechanics...
above covers alot of these things but if you find something mentioned that you dont understand ask how to do it and practice i.e to practice throw breaks record throws against you than practice breaking them, this wont help the mind game any but it will help you understand the timing of a throw break
if you don't know what a game play mechanic is or even what that means....where do i start...ask...the newbie silencer answers can help identify things you don't understand or know about...again ask questions
all the above stuff can be done by yourself, SC4 lacks a tutorial mode like VF4Evo but if you go over and root out all the different game mechanics you can find ways to practice them with recording mode.
execution is extremely important, if you have the confidence that you can execute properly it will improve your overall play because you don't have to think about doing a move, instead you can focus on when to do the move
i disagree with your recommendations, they aren't wrong, they just aren't very complete. why?
learn a character's entire movelist, the signature moves don't amount to a drop of water in a bucket. practice is good,
practice everything...again execution is extremely important, practice for precision.
setting the training dummy to hard is fine, i haven't used the computer active training dummies so i can't comment on the quality of play. all the stuff i mentioned about recording and making your own practice sessions applies here.
if by "up and down movement" you mean 8wayrun than yes. practice moving in all directions...the 8wayrun system is a signature part of the SC series. it allows 8 directional movement and has an entire attack system and mix-up/mindgame based on 8wayrun. its very important to understand how you can move and what you can do while moving...again practice the entire move list this will give you and idea of what options are available
emo_prinny...watching your own character isn't the best thing, you should be watching your opponent, watch what they are doing, look for visual cues to their next move, there are a lot of moves that you can visually see coming
overall suggestions...
learn the defensive properties of the game as a whole, spacing, blocking, throw breaks, GI, stun break, air control, wake up, etc are all very important parts of the game and the longer you can survive the more damage you can do.
Learn basic gameplay mechanics...
above covers alot of these things but if you find something mentioned that you dont understand ask how to do it and practice i.e to practice throw breaks record throws against you than practice breaking them, this wont help the mind game any but it will help you understand the timing of a throw break
if you don't know what a game play mechanic is or even what that means....where do i start...ask...the newbie silencer answers can help identify things you don't understand or know about...again ask questions
all the above stuff can be done by yourself, SC4 lacks a tutorial mode like VF4Evo but if you go over and root out all the different game mechanics you can find ways to practice them with recording mode.
execution is extremely important, if you have the confidence that you can execute properly it will improve your overall play because you don't have to think about doing a move, instead you can focus on when to do the move
i disagree with your recommendations, they aren't wrong, they just aren't very complete. why?
learn a character's entire movelist, the signature moves don't amount to a drop of water in a bucket. practice is good,
practice everything...again execution is extremely important, practice for precision.
setting the training dummy to hard is fine, i haven't used the computer active training dummies so i can't comment on the quality of play. all the stuff i mentioned about recording and making your own practice sessions applies here.
if by "up and down movement" you mean 8wayrun than yes. practice moving in all directions...the 8wayrun system is a signature part of the SC series. it allows 8 directional movement and has an entire attack system and mix-up/mindgame based on 8wayrun. its very important to understand how you can move and what you can do while moving...again practice the entire move list this will give you and idea of what options are available
pixel09
[09] Warrior
Yeah, and don't think you need to slap yourself in the face for watching your character. It is ok check up now and then on your character to make sure they aren't dancing on their head. From my experience the more you play with a character and really feel comfortable with them you'll naturally watch them less.
The next step to this is just being aware of everything on screen, knowing where the stage edge is, what the opponent is doing, lifebars, time, etc. For now I'd just worry about focusing on the opponent for now until you can multi-task with the eyes and look all cross-eyed when you step away from the game.
MLP715
[08] Mercenary
people keep talking about defense but there is no defense in this game (online anyway) guard impact rarely works if ever, throw break is iffy at best!! it seems that the best defense is a good offense if a person is playing "defensivly" there turtleing and that makes for a boring game and everything stuns and all you can do is wait for them to stop or start all over at the beginning of the next rd
i hate to sound negative but considering ALL of my friends that had SC4 have traded it in because they think it sucks, and they have been fans since soul edge we all play VF mostly and werent expecting much from SC4 i personally like the game even though its a spammers paradise but the mechs of the game arent there or maybe its my inexperience with the SC franchise player and ranked seem to be spam city on both the PS3 and 360 so getting a true feel for the "skill" part of the game its just not there
i want too learn this game but motivation to get better is starting to waiver between lag and spammers its becoming more and more difficult
i hate to sound negative but considering ALL of my friends that had SC4 have traded it in because they think it sucks, and they have been fans since soul edge we all play VF mostly and werent expecting much from SC4 i personally like the game even though its a spammers paradise but the mechs of the game arent there or maybe its my inexperience with the SC franchise player and ranked seem to be spam city on both the PS3 and 360 so getting a true feel for the "skill" part of the game its just not there
i want too learn this game but motivation to get better is starting to waiver between lag and spammers its becoming more and more difficult
1der
[08] Mercenary
right now online play for SC, for fighting games as a whole is a strange place.
online play doesn't provide the precision of offline play. as you mention spammers and lag muck the waters with safe lockdowns and unreliable game mechanics.
i would support the idea that SC4 is an imperfect game, its a glitchy game. i think theres a good game in here somewhere.
don't measure the game's mechanics purely from an online base take into account that many online strategies are unreliable in offline play and vice versa
KowtowRobinson
[10] Knight
Don't forget to check the regional matchfinders to try and find players in your area. Sometimes they'll be really close, sometimes you'll have to drive a bit. With the amount of new/old players coming back for SC4 however, you should be near someone.
whitey
[09] Warrior
Whatever you do dont play online and expect that to make you a good player. All online play is doing to me is getting me in the habbit of doing extremely unsafe combos that work great against players that dont understand Ukemi (i screwed up the spelling i think). So when i play against someone that has a clue as of what they're doing (Jaxel & outlaw) i'm getting my ass kicked for doing retarded moves, that i'm now in the habbit of thinking that they're guaranteed.
srsly, last night i had a 11 game winning streak against 3 different people and all i did was setsuka's 33b and then spammed 2a+b.
and i'm constantly getting kicked off servers because people are thinking im a "button mashing n00b" when i do 2 move spams. But if they understood how to block its extremely punishable.
srsly, last night i had a 11 game winning streak against 3 different people and all i did was setsuka's 33b and then spammed 2a+b.
and i'm constantly getting kicked off servers because people are thinking im a "button mashing n00b" when i do 2 move spams. But if they understood how to block its extremely punishable.
shura30
[08] Mercenary
i think there's a big difference in approach to online gaming
if you want to become good you can train a good part of your skills online (especially if you live in a place where no one play fighting games - like me)
BUT you have to play like offline..avoiding lag tactics, monkey rushes and abuses
i think we/you must learn only guaranteed stuff at first then once earned a good knowledge you can start changing your strategies depending on the opponent
if you want to become good you can train a good part of your skills online (especially if you live in a place where no one play fighting games - like me)
BUT you have to play like offline..avoiding lag tactics, monkey rushes and abuses
i think we/you must learn only guaranteed stuff at first then once earned a good knowledge you can start changing your strategies depending on the opponent
joulisians
[08] Mercenary
There are things that are taught to me by my local community and specifically by this team of players call Team Shen. But I'll get on to that a bit later on in this forum.
Basically what is need to be known about playing are the basic mechanics of the game. What do I mean by the basic mechanics of the game. E.g Throws are high, you can jump 2A and lows, Vertical moves cannot track side steppers most of the time while horizontals usually stops them. These are just some of the basic mechanics of the game.
The thing is you character. Understanding your character of plays that small little part in making you good. Know what are your move properties, like which moves tracks, what moves gives you tech crouch/jump properties, which moves tech traps, what moves does moves with autoGI Gi etc. Its not a must to master intricate combos, just learn the basic ones first and get on to the difficult ones later. And with the new CF, it is good to know what moves your character has that brings down the soul gauge.
Then come your frame data of your character. Frame data are important for the fact that you have to know which moves are fast which moves are slow so that you can use them in different situations, E.g for Ivy, I can use SW 44B post GI since most opponents have a habit of GI-ing back.
The other part of frame data are the recovery frames. Get to know what moves are safe, relatively safe and unsafe. There are 3 sets of recovery frame for every move, they are recovery frames on block (your opponent blocking them), on normal hit (your opponent getting hit) and on counter hit (you hit your opponent while they are trying to do something). Applying recovery frames and move frame data is very simple. Let say you do a move that is i16 or 16 frames (which is quite fast) and your opponent blocks it and leaves you at a recovery of -5 frames. And what ever moves you do will be 5 frames slower, say you do a move that is i17, it will hit only after i22. But lets say you have a move that leaves you with +5, this usually means that your opponent takes 5 frames to recover slower than you.
These are just some of the very basic things. I do not claim that these things are 100% correct, so if any of you guys find any mistakes in my post let me know, I will edit them.
Basically what is need to be known about playing are the basic mechanics of the game. What do I mean by the basic mechanics of the game. E.g Throws are high, you can jump 2A and lows, Vertical moves cannot track side steppers most of the time while horizontals usually stops them. These are just some of the basic mechanics of the game.
The thing is you character. Understanding your character of plays that small little part in making you good. Know what are your move properties, like which moves tracks, what moves gives you tech crouch/jump properties, which moves tech traps, what moves does moves with autoGI Gi etc. Its not a must to master intricate combos, just learn the basic ones first and get on to the difficult ones later. And with the new CF, it is good to know what moves your character has that brings down the soul gauge.
Then come your frame data of your character. Frame data are important for the fact that you have to know which moves are fast which moves are slow so that you can use them in different situations, E.g for Ivy, I can use SW 44B post GI since most opponents have a habit of GI-ing back.
The other part of frame data are the recovery frames. Get to know what moves are safe, relatively safe and unsafe. There are 3 sets of recovery frame for every move, they are recovery frames on block (your opponent blocking them), on normal hit (your opponent getting hit) and on counter hit (you hit your opponent while they are trying to do something). Applying recovery frames and move frame data is very simple. Let say you do a move that is i16 or 16 frames (which is quite fast) and your opponent blocks it and leaves you at a recovery of -5 frames. And what ever moves you do will be 5 frames slower, say you do a move that is i17, it will hit only after i22. But lets say you have a move that leaves you with +5, this usually means that your opponent takes 5 frames to recover slower than you.
These are just some of the very basic things. I do not claim that these things are 100% correct, so if any of you guys find any mistakes in my post let me know, I will edit them.
selece
[07] Duelist
First thing to get down is simple execution. Go to the SA for the character you like, most have "top 10 moves" and combo threads. Read through those, and practice them until you can consistently pull them off.
Next thing is to understand saftey/frametraps and punish strings. joulisians above me has covered that fairly well in his last paragraph.
Lastly, and most difficult is to start practicing hit-confirmations. You don't have to use full strings - use the first (or a safe move) to hit confirm, then if that hits, continue. If it doesn't, block/duck/GI appropriately. It's difficult to get the hang of, and you'll learn to wait on these short little moments in time where you're looking for a hit or block and then immediately reacting based on that. A half-decent way to start getting the hang of it is to use a comp. Taki, in practice mode. Freestyle - 1st action standing guard random, 2nd action AA or any other appropriately fast retaliation string you wish. Practice throwing out your hit confirmation, then if it goes through, continuing with the combo. If it doesn't, block or avoid immediately. If you miss it, you'll get hit and you know you did it wrong. >_<
Next thing is to understand saftey/frametraps and punish strings. joulisians above me has covered that fairly well in his last paragraph.
Lastly, and most difficult is to start practicing hit-confirmations. You don't have to use full strings - use the first (or a safe move) to hit confirm, then if that hits, continue. If it doesn't, block/duck/GI appropriately. It's difficult to get the hang of, and you'll learn to wait on these short little moments in time where you're looking for a hit or block and then immediately reacting based on that. A half-decent way to start getting the hang of it is to use a comp. Taki, in practice mode. Freestyle - 1st action standing guard random, 2nd action AA or any other appropriately fast retaliation string you wish. Practice throwing out your hit confirmation, then if it goes through, continuing with the combo. If it doesn't, block or avoid immediately. If you miss it, you'll get hit and you know you did it wrong. >_<
It's actually really easy to get good at Soul Calibur, but what I'm going to tell you to do will take a very long time. There is no easy path to having skill.
Start with your favorite character in Training mode and walk through the moves list watching the move execute and then copying the move. Do this five or ten times per move until you're comfortable, and until you can execute the move correctly.
Next, rinse and repeat with every other character in Soul Calibur.
Okay, you're done with the basics.
Now, pick the character you're going to "skill" and go back into training mode with a CPU on the hardest difficulty. Play against this character until you school the character like there's no tomorrow. Because the hardest difficulty received a serious nerf in SC4 as compared to SC3 you should be able to get to this level rather quickly (a few hours if you're initially awful, less depending on your experience).
Next, rinse and repeat against every character in Soul Calibur.
Now you know your matchups.
Finally, you'll find your greatest difficulty. You have to find a sparring partner and practice. The partner should be as familiar with the game as you, in other words the person you find to practice against needs to have been through "the basics" as I described above. You can train anything you want, from blocking lows and low identification to parry combinations to effective use of openings and frame advantage. The only way you can really train, though, is to find someone who will take advantage of EVERY opening, who will punish you 100% of the time. Once you reach a comfort level and can identify every move of your opponent and react effectively 100% of the time you will be good, but to become great you're going to have to reach far beyond just identification and reaction. If I'm talking to a true SC noob I think that's about as much as you want to hear for now.
Start with your favorite character in Training mode and walk through the moves list watching the move execute and then copying the move. Do this five or ten times per move until you're comfortable, and until you can execute the move correctly.
Next, rinse and repeat with every other character in Soul Calibur.
Okay, you're done with the basics.
Now, pick the character you're going to "skill" and go back into training mode with a CPU on the hardest difficulty. Play against this character until you school the character like there's no tomorrow. Because the hardest difficulty received a serious nerf in SC4 as compared to SC3 you should be able to get to this level rather quickly (a few hours if you're initially awful, less depending on your experience).
Next, rinse and repeat against every character in Soul Calibur.
Now you know your matchups.
Finally, you'll find your greatest difficulty. You have to find a sparring partner and practice. The partner should be as familiar with the game as you, in other words the person you find to practice against needs to have been through "the basics" as I described above. You can train anything you want, from blocking lows and low identification to parry combinations to effective use of openings and frame advantage. The only way you can really train, though, is to find someone who will take advantage of EVERY opening, who will punish you 100% of the time. Once you reach a comfort level and can identify every move of your opponent and react effectively 100% of the time you will be good, but to become great you're going to have to reach far beyond just identification and reaction. If I'm talking to a true SC noob I think that's about as much as you want to hear for now.