How do you beat a really good turtle?

[HiguraShiki]

Honestly, I did not really have a hard time with people turtling, but there was this one person who just went overboard with it. He would literally:

1) Block almost all my attacks
2) Grab break/duck almost every grab
3) Counter attack every time I hit him with a move that gave him the advantage

It was really difficult for me to beat him with Hilde and Cervantes. But I completely owned him with Raphael due to one reason.
I beat him badly since Raphael's BB,BE move completely wrecked his meter every time.

I know, you should just be able to guard break him later on, but it was not that easy, this guy was a good Xiba turtler. He would block almost every move I landed on him and just immediately counter since his characters moves were much quicker. I would get him with a grab every once and a while but for some reason he would grab break me almost all the time.

Aside from guard crushing, how exactly do you fight against a good turtle?

 

[XionValkyrie]

I thought Hilde and Cervantes both had quite a few moves that do heavy Guard damage.

 

[DrakeAldan]

Can you post a replay? Preferably a couple of replays.

 

[Fhwoarang]

Persistence, simpleness and variety. He won't break ALL throws; he won't block fast low pokes on reaction, neither punish them. Pick a safe mid and mix up. You can start from there.

 

[SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe]

I think a person who's blocking and waiting for you to come at them has a specific idea of what they'll do when you actually come at them, right? I'd bait and try to figure out what they have on their mind. Once I know what they use, I figure out what the best course of action against it would be? Or something.

That is if I wasn't entirely noob, right?

 

[Roujin]

Well if they are going to turtle up on you, then just don't engage them. They want you to come at them, so don't give him the advantage by playing in the manner he is accustomed to dealing with.

Even if it's the start of the round, just hang back and wait for him to lose patience and come to you. If he doesn't then you'll just time out 3 times and get a draw, at least you won't have lost.

Most of the time they guy will eventually lose his patience and come to you once the timer gets low, hoping usually to land some kind of long poke on you or a low hit and snatch victory in the dying seconds. So make sure you have a plan for that.

 

[Fallacy]

If he's just blocking whatever you do then throw out guard break moves and use the frame advantage. If he's breaking your throws and not ducking you either need to mix up between a and b throw more or you need to tag him with lows. You need to get him to start ducking so you can hit him with mids. Really the point is to establish that he can't block whatever you do, lows guard breaks unblockables anything to break his mindset and make him press buttons or duck.

 

[HiguraShiki]

If he's just blocking whatever you do then throw out guard break moves and use the frame advantage. If he's breaking your throws and not ducking you either need to mix up between a and b throw more or you need to tag him with lows. You need to get him to start ducking so you can hit him with mids. Really the point is to establish that he can't block whatever you do, lows guard breaks unblockables anything to break his mindset and make him press buttons or duck.

The problem was that he was ducking the grabs as well, and avoiding the unblockables. The guy wasn't stupid, almost everything I did was countered in some way.

@Xion: their guard break moves are easy to counter since they are left wide open for a fast character. Xiba has a few great moves that are just too fast for Hilde to counter if she tries to break his guard.
Raphael on the other hand has a whole combo that does not leave him open once it ends and also completely destroyed their guard.

@Drake: I don't think I have the replay anymore. Hopefully I still have it X_X

 

[geejay008]

I have similar problems too... Omega's opponents would almost always turtle, and with a limited moveset... its pretty hard to crack a shell... =/

However, I can and have successfully countered such playstyle... though since it requires a lot of patience and tenacity on my part... I usually don't bother to 'rise' to the occasion should an adept 'turtle' come across my path on random casual matches online... just not worth it if all I'm after is just 'chilled out' type of matches... =/


what the other posts here have stated does apply (unless you're playing someone like Keev or Saitoh... =_=):

• The average 'turtle' cannot keep breaking/ducking your throws (& the mere fact he's ducking anything exposes 'turtle' to mids too... use that to your advantage.. make him duck!)

• The average 'turtle' cannot keep guarding your mid/low pressure... unless you're telegraphing each mixups...

• Your character almost always has an attack that's relatively decent frames after block... use it to bait a response... which will hopefully be out-prioritized by your preceding attack.. or perhaps throw him.. ^_~

• Setup BEs and GB attacks so the turtle blocks them... they either wreck their gauge... or perhaps setup an unblockable for you! ^_~

• The average 'turtle' is human... and will be prone to mistakes... unless your opponent is either keev or saitoh... >_<

Usually, in a typical battle of attrition within soulcalibur, there will almost always be a 'breaking point' with the two combatants... a good 'turtle' will always wait for yours... you just have to make sure you trigger their 'breaking point' 1st... usually done with a successful throw or hit.. even a low poke that gives you an advantage... however small... would usually be enough to get the round to your favour.

A ringout against the turtle is also a good chance for you to turn the tide and get you back in the game, but as with everything... you must press the advantage, keep your pressure against him going!

Its essentially a battle of 'wills' ...and the moment you lose yours, either losing patience etc ...then its usually game to the more patient 'turtle' from that point on... since its usually a downward cycle for you... ie generally losing all your matches against him/her thereafter... =_=

 

[SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe]

I think you can RO blocking opponents? *trollface*

 

[Bushido]

1) Block almost all my attacks
2) Grab break/duck almost every grab
3) Counter attack every time I hit him with a move that gave him the advantage

I don't think turtle is the right word you are looking for. I think you meant to ask, how do I beat a good player.

 

[geejay008]

I don't turtle is the right word you are looking for. I think you meant to ask, how do I beat a good DEFENSIVE player.

...fixed for you.. ^_~

 

[Bushido]

To me that is the same thing.

 

[Supa]

You throw turtles before and after breaking their guard.

You can't duck throws on reaction so you were really telegraphing you were going to throw if that happened a lot. You could've feinted whatever you were doing to tip him off that you were going to throw to get a 3B or other mid out. Breaks are 50/50, so you must've been using the same throw too much or too predictably. If he really was just getting lucky, there should've at least been once or twice that a late break would put him on the ground.

I didn't notice you mentioning who he was playing...?

 

[HiguraShiki]

To me that is the same thing.

You don't get it, this guy would never attack me at all, unless he was countering.

I don't like waiting for the time to run out, because usually if that happens, against a character like Xiba, he would just charge in and use a really quick move.

@Supa: He was playing Xiba.
Well it got to a point that my 3 main mixups were not working, so I just resulted to Hilde's 22/88 B and A+B to try and guard break him, but that did not work out well.
With Raphael I did better. I played his game and waited patiently, he would charge in after 20 seconds of waiting and I would counter his moves. Then I was just completely destroying his guard and he couldn't do anything, resorting to just attacking me and breaking from his turtle.

 

[XionValkyrie]

Since he only counters attacks, you should have more meter than him? Spam safe moves until you're a meter up on him than GI his counter. If you're a meter up on him you can always win the GI war, just make sure to not use anything that he can auto-GI.

You can also try to get a life lead and just keep away from him. Then he's forced to come to you when the timer starts to run out.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Since he only counters attacks, you should have more meter than him? Spam safe moves until you're a meter up on him than GI his counter. If you're a meter up on him you can always win the GI war, just make sure to not use anything that he can auto-GI.

You can also try to get a life lead and just keep away from him. Then he's forced to come to you when the timer starts to run out.

Yea but that last tactic is very risky. It can honestly go either way, which is why I feel very uncomfortable when put in that situation.

 

[Lynari]

Why weren't mix-ups working?

 

[damn-I-Suck]

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth a thousand pictures.​

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So that basically means that a video is worth a million words.​

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Gawd I'm such a nerd.​

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But seriously, a video would really help people diagnose your problem.​

 

[HiguraShiki]

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth a thousand pictures.​

​

So that basically means that a video is worth a million words.​

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Gawd I'm such a nerd.​

​

But seriously, a video would really help people diagnose your problem.​

Sighhh, hopefully that dude comes and fights me again in player match...
I feel bad that Hilde had to suffer such an annoying defeat :_(