α Patroklos General Discussion/ Q&A

I dislike the 1B:B change a ton. It's just going to make it harder for people with poor execution to play him right(and I felt he was at a good difficulty as is). Top level players will rarely be harmed by the change. And then giving the double 1B:B a dmg buff? The hell?

Either way seems like he got out mostly unscathed. This'll be interesting.
 
Eji1700 said:
I dislike the 1B:B change a ton. It's just going to make it harder for people with poor execution to play him right(and I felt he was at a good difficulty as is). Top level players will rarely be harmed by the change. And then giving the double 1B:B a dmg buff? The hell?

Either way seems like he got out mostly unscathed. This'll be interesting.
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Not "unscathed," he got an overall buff.

And to be honest, with the damage he's doing he NEEDS a high execution barrier. Like really, as is right now, it's way too easy.
 
Execution barriers strike me as the absolute worst possible way to balance him though.

I can almost do everything he has no problem, and reliably and I KNOW i'm not that good. Better players will get it down. You balance mostly for tournaments and to make sure your scrubs don't cry too hard online. How is this going to stop a tournament apat from killing everyone if he does turn out too strong? I'm pretty sure anyone planning on maining him will be 10/10 on all the JF's anyways, so it basically does nothing but make it harder for casual's to get into him.

It's not a nerf, it's a higher learning curve. Come tourney time it'll barely matter.
 
I think making it 1F will be a big deal in actual play! Particularly that 1B is -18 on block and -12 on hit... So every time you mess up the JF on a blocked 1B, you stand to lose a bunch of health! And every you mess in up on hit you eat an A, A from some of the faster cast members.
 
Which means if you can't land the 1B:B, don't play apat. There are plenty of people in many fighting game communities who've shown that you can get this sort of link down with something like a 95%+ success rate(don't forget you can double tap it). It's just not the majority of the player base. You'll see him less in casual hands and he'll still be just as good as he was before for someone who's used to these sorts of execution games.
 
Well SF does have plinking which bumps the input leniency up a frame also, eliminating 1 frame links. Combos get dropped all the time in real play taking that into account still.
 
1B:B JF going from 2 frames to 1 frame is VERY big. If it's 2 frame, you can double tap and make it a 4 frame input. But if it's 1 frame, and with no input exploits like plinking, you're stuck with it.

Even Daigo doesn't go for un-plinkable 1 frame links. He has a modded stick so he can select-plink those.

So making 1B:B a 1 frame JF and keeping 1B unsafe means it's no longer viable in real games.
 
yeah ... not too thrilled about the change ... but we'll see when the patch arrives [though I know it has already arrived for those who are in uk area].


~~~

somewhat offtopic as far as the patch is concerned ... how the hell do you track with alpha? I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like tracking is really shitty with this char.

I know he has 214a and 66a ... bA [at -21, not exactly the best option] ... 1aaa and 4k are decent. well I played games with a leixia player and on wakeup, would randomly mash wr b,be... I kept getting hit because there doesn't seem anything I can do. it evaded my 4k ... 1aaa as well as my grab attempts. 66a and 214a are high, so I'm not too sure about these. characters with a tc'ing side step move will eat these up ..... so I'm kinda at a loss here ...
 
Kane said:
somewhat offtopic as far as the patch is concerned ... how the hell do you track with alpha? I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like tracking is really shitty with this char.

I know he has 214a and 66a ... bA [at -21, not exactly the best option] ... 1aaa and 4k are decent. well I played games with a leixia player and on wakeup, would randomly mash wr b,be... I kept getting hit because there doesn't seem anything I can do. it evaded my 4k ... 1aaa as well as my grab attempts. 66a and 214a are high, so I'm not too sure about these. characters with a tc'ing side step move will eat these up ..... so I'm kinda at a loss here ...
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People forget about 3A. It's a little on the slow side, but it can help deal with the situation you described. 3K is also a good alternative to 4K. It comes out 2 frames faster. Doesn't yield as much frame advantage on hit, but they're the same on block (-8).
 
AlphaDragoon said:
Patch is out in NA, in case anyone missed it.

And yeah, it seems like 1B:B is a 1 frame JF now, oddly enough though it doesn't really seem any harder to do. I'm getting them just as often as I was before.
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or maybe.... the reverse is read... and 1B:B is actually easier to do... so you're getting them just as often as before...
hm...

-LAU
 
Based on the 5-10 minutes I spent with the new patch, it's definitely stricter. My 1B:B success rate went from near 100 percent to around 60-70
 
The use remains the same: post-GI, post step if your opp. whiffs, oki if you think your opp is going to attack right away from the ground, regular punish, and if you think someone is going to duck.

121-128 dmg combos from any of the above - ouch.

The timing for this move will feel more critical now when you switch between different TVs. I feel like I have to input the second B a pinch earlier than I would before. I would have been fine if they scaled the damage down and left the timing alone. These days, I'm too lazy to practice again.
 
I actually feel pretty good about it. :D It's stricter, but there's no way it's 1 frame. Probably a 2 frame link now down from something like a 3-5 frame.

I also found that 11B 1A:A:A isn't ACable in this game. Pretty happy about that too.
 
Destinizish said:
I also found that 11B 1A:A:A isn't ACable in this game. Pretty happy about that too.
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This does look cool, but I still think 11B, ag:B is probably a better route.

SERIOUS SHIT:
So if you've ever faced a good opponent, you no doubt know that jumping attacks are an excellent way to escape certain mix ups. I had a lot of trouble at my last tournament against a player who would 8B out of my close range mix ups. This is a good option because it allows you to avoid lows and throws entirely, while taking (admittedly CH) damage on an air hit, which puts them into an AC state and doesn't set up any further combo.

This can be very frustrating to play against if used well, so I spent some time thinking about the best counters Alpha has to this tactic. There are two I thought of, and one that stands out as superior.

2A BE:
On hit against the jumping attack, this guarantees a JF Twister for 70+ damage. Not bad.
+ i13 is fast
- -18 on block is bad, assuming they don't jump
- Costs some meter to do.

ag:B
Ha! They can't AC this sucker if it hits them airborne. Sets up a juicy combo, still netting over 100 damage if you're willing to spend some meter.
- i24 is slow
+ -13 looks way better on block though.

That's about all I've got to say on this. I really needed to find something that didn't just hit a jumping opponent, but that punished them for trying it. This is what I came up with. Anyone else have some ideas? I know I'm going to be lighting up the next person who tries to 9B MY point blank mixups....

Muahahahaha...
 
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