J
JustinAkatsuki
Guest
Yes I agree. I say no CE should ring anyone out due to their damage potential...i13 and 90 damage...yeah I would like for it's ring out ability to be removed.
Balance Patch Discussion
- Thread starter Belial
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Tofma
[08] Mercenary
If you want to just discuss the RO ability of the CE then just say so. Dont confuse me by mentioning the 66b that comes first.
As little as 66b bothers me. The RO ability of the CE bothers me even less. If I know I'm at a range where the CE would ring me out I try to avoid eating it at any cost. If I somehow end up getting RO'd by it then it's purely my fault.
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
Yeah we found shed loads of stuff you never saw, like CE without meter. And we found fuzzy guard, told Namco, they weren't interested. Remember that the reason it's harder to jump lows now is because they removed the fuzzy guard. So at the time, they wanted to keep it, because 10 or so guys telling them how to change the game wasn't enough when they'd have 2 million (they thought) telling them in a few months' time.
This argument comes up all the time. I am bored of it. What constitutes a major? How many majors are there in a full calendar year? Do I take it that Algol, Viola, Cervantes, Patroklos, Alpha, Tira, Astaroth, Omega, Ivy and Pyrrha all need to win a major each before we can consider making changes to their braindead moves/damage?
Tira imo is definitely one of the bast characters in the game. Massive damage, speed, and in some match-ups her punishment is also off the charts. JS helps to mitigate the GS insanity but it doesn't make her weak at all. Her only bad match-ups are the top tier, and even these I'm not convinced are all that tough for her.
Btw about the communnity vote, I have to admit that I was a little disheartened, both by the number of changes (which by the way was Belial's attempt to accommodate as much of the input as possible, the backlash is unbelievable) and by what seems to be self-interest voting, that is certain players simply voting for all other characters to be nerfed while their own character remains unchanged.
To be honest I think this is unavoidable. When you have a vote based system, fear does play a part: fear of the overwhelming numbers making your own opinion redundant. So to reduce the chance of your own character getting whacked while other characters stay the same, people are likely to vote in their own interests, hoping that by the end, all will even itself out and every character will end up getting nerfed the same.
It reduces the poll to a popularity contest. With this kind of reasoning you might as well ask "who is your favourite character", and then at the end whichever character has received the least votes will get nerfed. I don't know how to fix this really. Don't want to be a doomsayer but maybe getting an 8WR community-wide consensus on these things is impossible, as different scenes (e.g. Spain France Germany Russia USA) have quite different views on what is OP and what is just failure to adjust. Might just have to let the individual communities fend for themsleves and make thier own suggestions to the almighty Project Soul.
taffertier
[10] Knight
In this case would you support the buff to Raphael's CE having ring out potential? After all it's almost completely identical to Patty Cakes CE however it deals significantly less damage and activates a single frame faster. if Patroklos can have his pattypault i think Raphael deserves the ring out capabilities as well. This all assuming Patroklos is going to keep the properties.
Slade
[14] Master
Which is why I suggested we gather a general consensus of the characters our community thinks are too strong and the ones we think are too weak and send that list to Project Soul so they can work out the specific changes to these characters on their own.
Tofma
[08] Mercenary
I wouldnt mind at all if it did RO. But I wouldnt particularly go around telling Namco to do this either because I dont care enough.
I just dont really care what sort of changes PS wanted to do. I'd simply adjust to it.
taffertier
[10] Knight
I can make a list like that on the spot. Thing is when you get into vague terms like simply buffing and nerfing you're leaving out how much you want them to be buffed / nerfed. There's a lot of wiggle room. And to be honest, judging by how drastic some changes in 1.02 were, i'm not sure they'll adjust them very lightly. Honestly all characters could due with some changes, small nerfs and buffs to certain moves that are brain dead or too powerful. If i can only pick characters that i think are on the extreme of too powerful and too weak it would be.
Buff:
Raphael - Aeon - Tira - Z.W.E.I.
Nerf:
Mitsurugi - Viola - Cervantes - Alpha Patroklos
Slade
[14] Master
I disagree with Aeon needing buffs, only bug fixes. He currently has the strongest RO ability in the game, some of the best anti-step in the game, and he's no slouch when it comes to damage. SW stance is a joke, though.
taffertier
[10] Knight
I put him there mostly because i believe outside of his ring out potential he is rather weak. And while his 66A is godlike, compared to the rest of the cast he doesnt really have that much going for him. Also because i'd like to see SW be changed so it's less of a bad gimmick and more of a relatively threatening stance.
sephalump
Video games kill people
22AB, 2A, AA, 6A, 3A, and 66A are all really good step kills. I'm not saying Aeon is godlike omgbrokentier shit, but Slade is onto something when he says his stepkill is really good.
taffertier
[10] Knight
Hmm, maybe he could share some of those with Raph. His step killing capabilities are good, but i just think comparatively he is not as good as the other characters. He's clearly got strengths though, but so do all the characters. I think his is just a case where we need to see more. He was written off very early as a terrible character, but people are starting to realize some of his potential.
ChaosK
[13] Hero
I too would say, that aeon doesn't strike me as a low tier char post patch 1.02. Imo he is a solid mid tier. His game improved a lot due to the movement nerf.
I also doubt that tira needs buffs, considering that quite a number of top player always mention how good she is.
Imo the consensus of the 8wayrun community, where 99% can agree on is:
- Mitsu, Cervy, Alpha and Viola are top tier and probably need a little amount of nerfing.
- Raph is low tier and needs some buffs.
I also doubt that tira needs buffs, considering that quite a number of top player always mention how good she is.
Imo the consensus of the 8wayrun community, where 99% can agree on is:
- Mitsu, Cervy, Alpha and Viola are top tier and probably need a little amount of nerfing.
- Raph is low tier and needs some buffs.
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
I wish this were true, but I don't think 99% can agree on anything.
taffertier
[10] Knight
Force-Destruct
[10] Knight
Honestly, I don't see why people say that Algol's CE Lv2 is OP? I mean a stray hit leading into 60+% life is tempting, but the player has to save all that meter for the mind game that follows.
My suggestion is to keep the same damage but transfer part of the heavy damage (about 20) from the Second part of his CE to the first part to make his CE Lv1 do 35 damage instead of 15, and have his CE lv2 do 100 Damage instead of 120.
The only "problem" would be that his 66B into CE Lv2 would still net the player 160 damage, but it would make the player be more meter conscious when attempting to use it
My suggestion is to keep the same damage but transfer part of the heavy damage (about 20) from the Second part of his CE to the first part to make his CE Lv1 do 35 damage instead of 15, and have his CE lv2 do 100 Damage instead of 120.
The only "problem" would be that his 66B into CE Lv2 would still net the player 160 damage, but it would make the player be more meter conscious when attempting to use it
taffertier
[10] Knight
ChaosK
[13] Hero
Imo Z.W.E.I. falls into the same pattern as chars like NM and Sieg, just bad on paper.
I think most high risk/high reward chars look bad at first sight but fare a lot better in an actual match.
I might be wrong though.
I think most high risk/high reward chars look bad at first sight but fare a lot better in an actual match.
I might be wrong though.
J
JustinAkatsuki
Guest
About zwei.....I would like zwei to get buffs but the problem is there isn't alot of people playing him, even only a few top players are using him so I feel some people do not know what he can be capable of. Imo if someone doesn't know alot about zwei he can appear to be mid or upper mid to them, but against somone who is very well experienced against him he becomes low tier in my eyes. Gotta really outplay your opponent to win..I think it's safe to say no one should really come to a consensus on zwei simply because he isn't played or used enough to have an actual tier placement for him.
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