Balance Patch Discussion

[Paranormal_Oreo]

Mitsu 2KB BE can ring out, so there's that to consider.

I think Yoshi's can too.

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

2KB does 48 damage. Unreactable low. Does more than some characters actual throws (Nightmare). Free Mixups with BE version, BE version has Clean Hit A (I believe).

Yoshi's is also unreactable. Mitsu's 2K, B is unsafe on hit though. You can get free mixup off of FC 3K too.

 

[Oboro]

It needs meter though. It's punishable on hit without meter quite heavily by most of the cast. Yoshi gets 6K. 50 damage on it's own. It's stabbable, JT Twister able, etc... all on hit without meter.

 

[TiZ]

Mitsu's 4B is completely retarded. He gets way too much reward, way too easily, from doing something that should be considered a bad habit, and only to be done sparingly. I just 6KK'd you and you're at -8, so I'm going to press my offen-- oh, shit, 4B! I just took more damage than I would have given you if I hit you twice, and now you're going to mix me up for three times that. I agree that if I press my offense carelessly and you read it well, you should be able to halt my momentum and be rewarded for it. But 4B works in almost every situation in which Mitsu is at disadvantage, except for advancing moves. You can mash it all day at disadvantage and not have to worry about anything. And that's just his best move.

Why have we not banned Mitsurugi yet?

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Mitsu's 4B is completely retarded. He gets way too much reward, way too easily, from doing something that should be considered a bad habit, and only to be done sparingly. I just 6KK'd you and you're at -8, so I'm going to press my offen-- oh, shit, 4B! I just took more damage than I would have given you if I hit you twice, and now you're going to mix me up for three times that. I agree that if I press my offense carelessly and you read it well, you should be able to halt my momentum and be rewarded for it. But 4B works in almost every situation in which Mitsu is at disadvantage, except for advancing moves. You can mash it all day at disadvantage and not have to worry about anything. And that's just his best move.

Why have we not banned Mitsurugi yet?

Banning chars is easier said than done imo, like what if he never wins any tournament but he still has all his nonsense tools? see what I mean. Personally i feel something must be done about him and viola as well. Fixing 4b will not solve the issue with him, 33K and 44A both need to be at more disadvantage on block. In general he needs to be not so safe all the time, and needs minor damage nerfs other than that he will continue to just piss everyone off.

 

[ShinJin]

because mitsu is not actually broken, he's just really really good and brain dead, it takes 5 times the concentration to beat him but he is beatable.

Viola on the other hand is just retarded, even when you guess wrong you're still at advantage and more often then not the tactic doubles up as the juggle, so you dont even have to see if something is blocked or if it hit and you just spam away and take 50% health.

 

[acefrost]

Lol at what this thread has become :')

Spoiler

 

[YoshiKatYoko]

Some of these are the worst things you can possibly wish for. Ever...


Not much of a problem at all with the 66B and 33_99B being punishable. Just like -11 or something. About the double JFT combo being easier, either don't use him, don't do double JFT(Just 1 then runup+mixup), or learn to do it.



22_88K KND was removed for a reason. It was WAY to good. 24 damage invisible low that KNDs is crazy. 66B, B jailing is fine I guess. People should learn to JG it anyways. 3B+K, K being positive on block is also insane. Asking for WAY to much. It already does enough guard damage.



Having A:6 being slower is literally the stupidest thing I have EVER heard. It would be almost useless. It be much worse at punishing, combo fillers, and think about. Who thinks an i13 -14 on block attack is good compared to an i10 -14 on block punisher? If you were to slow that down, you would have to make her A i13 too. Terrible. Making 22_88A punishable on block is also terrible. Same with removing 66B's pushback. You really want to destroy all of her best moves. With FC A+B ground stunning again... NO... just NO. They took that away so she couldn't get 120-130 meterless/wall less damage. With a wall she could then easily get 160-180. A+G BE being harder to break is also a NO. It already has the best back-RO potential in the game.


If 1K tracks, then say hello to an almost-in-the-same-league as Cervy's 1A, B low. It already has a TJ built in and ignores the 'guts' mechanic because its 22 damage on NH. It can already be comboed off of on CH for a possible 51 or 57(DNS B character dependent). The only thing then making Cervy's 1A, B better is the possible damage and the fact that its 7 frames faster at i17. 6A having more range is something I can agree to though. Nerfing CE damage is also a no-no. Ezio's is just as strong and could clean hit but no one complains about that. Omega's CE damage looks like so much just because of it only being 2 hits compared to Ezio's being 4 hits. Again with the killing moves that make a character good. Why would yoy ever nerf damage of DNS B:4 and NS B:4? Yes they are damaging and really quick but she needs it. She punishes you hard for making mistakes. Both Pyrrha's and Omega's are semi-safe. I think its because they are totally different characters.

I don't know why you replied to me, but I know only the players in the spoilers tag in the first post can reply to any other posts. Forgive me if I misunderstand the rules (too bad in English).

I'll only comment about Pyrrha O. part.

1k is her only good low , but you'll take risk in using it. It is a seeable low at i24, non-tracking, -16 (cough Natsu's 6A+B), no mixups after and really bad range. The only good thing where to use 1k is in forced block situations (e.g. 66B 44B+K) so you can mix up with another 44B+K. Also when opponent's tend to guess your mixups with stabs and 1K - but stabs don't track too, and can be easily sidestep (also 1K).

CE, when used in combos, has A VERY high damage. Try using NSB:4 NSB:4 4B CE on the wall. It completely obliterated the opponent's HP bar. Here's one of the combos that are easy and hit like a maniac:

Any whiff from the opponent, and 1 meter will make you deal that kind of damage. Plus, 4[A] TCs and works after a guard break. Not playing Ezio, but I know that his CE is 5 hits.

I would take out my word about nerfing DNSB:4 and NSB:4 damage. The only difference in the two moves is that NSB:4 can wall hit, rendering you the CE combo (which can lead to some of her very damaging combos). I suggest taking out the wall hit properties of NSB:4 (or NSB 4).


Either way, nerf CE damage or remove NSB:4's wall hit properties. That's my opinion.

Yep, Pyrrha and Pyrrha O. are different characters. One fact that I will be saying: Pyrrha is a better character than Pyrrha O.

 

[ChaosK]

I am tired of people using the argument, "its chars X only good low, he needs it", acting like the lack of a high number of good lows would be unique to char X, when in fact this is true for the majority, barring some exceptions.
If your char has one very good low, he is arguably already above the curve.

 

[Age_of_Truth]

And it being anything similar to that would defeat the purpose of the move, which is what I was saying the whole time :p.

defeat the purpose of a 70+dmg antistep?

 

[ShinJin]

i've not played against any cervys that i didn't think i could beat, where as anyone picking natsu and viola gives me a really hard time and the match often seems unwinable, thats my rationale to not nerfing cervy.

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

1k is her only good low , but you'll take risk in using it. It is a seeable low at i24, non-tracking, -16 (cough Natsu's 6A+B), no mixups after and really bad range. The only good thing where to use 1k is in forced block situations (e.g. 66B 44B+K) so you can mix up with another 44B+K. Also when opponent's tend to guess your mixups with stabs and 1K - but stabs don't track too, and can be easily sidestep (also 1K).

Its barely reactable. Try blocking it every time someone does it to you. It would be amazing if it tracks.

CE, when used in combos, has A VERY high damage. Try using NSB:4 NSB:4 4B CE on the wall. It completely obliterated the opponent's HP bar. Here's one of the combos that are easy and hit like a maniac:

Any whiff from the opponent, and 1 meter will make you deal that kind of damage. Plus, 4[A] TCs and works after a guard break. Not playing Ezio, but I know that his CE is 5 hits.

Anyones CE(Except Xiba's, Pyrrha's, Hilde's, and Leixia's) look like a lot of damage when the full animation is done. Omega's CE did 46 damage in that combo. 1 more damage than half of it. And the 236B:4s dont always w!

I would take out my word about nerfing DNSB:4 and NSB:4 damage. The only difference in the two moves is that NSB:4 can wall hit, rendering you the CE combo (which can lead to some of her very damaging combos). I suggest taking out the wall hit properties of NSB:4 (or NSB 4).

This is where Omega's wall game is. Without 236B:4's damage or wall splatting ability, her wall game would suck.

Yep, Pyrrha and Pyrrha O. are different characters. One fact that I will be saying: Pyrrha is a better character than Pyrrha O.

NO NO NO NO NO! That is DEFINITELY NOT true! Omega is definitely better than Pyrrha. Yes Pyrrha has better lows, oki, and grabs, but Omega has better damage(MUCH better), better guard damage, better punishers, better CE, better range, and better wall game. Omega is hands down a better character than Pyrrha. Pyrrha is the worst Alexandra/Greek in SCV. Still very good but still the worst of the 4.

 

[taffertier]

because mitsu is not actually broken, he's just really really good and brain dead, it takes 5 times the concentration to beat him but he is beatable.

Viola on the other hand is just retarded, even when you guess wrong you're still at advantage and more often then not the tactic doubles up as the juggle, so you dont even have to see if something is blocked or if it hit and you just spam away and take 50% health.

Clearly you dont know Viola if you think she can spam away and say that Mitsu isnt on her level. It's not like her set ups are inescapable and full screen and all of them take away half your life or that she has perpetual frame advantage.

 

[YoshiKatYoko]

Its barely reactable. Try blocking it every time someone does it to you. It would be amazing if it tracks.

Anyones CE(Except Xiba's, Pyrrha's, Hilde's, and Leixia's) look like a lot of damage when the full animation is done. Omega's CE did 46 damage in that combo. 1 more damage than half of it. And the 236B:4s dont always w!

This is where Omega's wall game is. Without 236B:4's damage or wall splatting ability, her wall game would suck.

NO NO NO NO NO! That is DEFINITELY NOT true! Omega is definitely better than Pyrrha. Yes Pyrrha has better lows, oki, and grabs, but Omega has better damage(MUCH better), better guard damage, better punishers, better CE, better range, and better wall game. Omega is hands down a better character than Pyrrha. Pyrrha is the worst Alexandra/Greek in SCV. Still very good but still the worst of the 4.

Try ditching CE with 2B BE:4 in that combo. That will make it more obstructive. Her DNSB:4 as a stand alone move is 82 dmg., and that's really high for an AT. DNSB has also pushback, which really stands upto its -14 block frames.

Her wall game is really good (1/2 meter dealing nearly 200 damage when near walls), and it should be needing of a nerfed. If that's not the case, then I would request for a damage nerf for her DNSB:4 and NSB:4. Why? They're pretty much damaging in combos, and rather, as stand-alone moves. She can even do over 100 meterless damage with NSA DNSB:4.

I'm not gonna reply to you in the Pyrrha VS Pyrrha O. It sucks that you don't know Pyrrha Omega that much. I'll leave this to others to comment.

What I'm expecting and needing to nerfed from Pyrrha Omega is her stab damages, 'cause they're considered high damage as an AT.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Clearly you dont know Viola if you think she can spam away and say that Mitsu isnt on her level. It's not like her set ups are inescapable and full screen and all of them take away half your life or that she has perpetual frame advantage.

Then again her SET 6B+k shouldn't give her all that frame advantage anyway, and she shouldn't be doing nonsense damage off of 3b. Her setups are escapable it's just the risk/reward is not in most of the other casts members favor. I fought several good viola's already so far no one has a good answer to 44A BE and SET 6B+K.

 

[taffertier]

I fought several good viola's already so far no one has a good answer to 44A BE and SET 6B+K.

You can side step 44A BE or GI it on block. Most characters can get a decent punish off a 44A BE GI. As for 6B+K BE there are several ways to intelligently guess, but that's what this move does, it forces the mix up. That is in essence her entire character. But these 6B+K set ups have many ways of reducing their effectiveness. Simply rolling backwards on 8A+B knock downs will ruin her Oki. Without the frame advantage she wouldnt be able to combo off mids or give her the safety that her moveset needs cause otherwise she's unsafe on most of her attacks. Her frames are mediocre at best it's 6B+K that makes her moveset work.

And i'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that her damage needs to be put in check, i dont know anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[Noregrets]

More power to you then.
If you can keep up with punishing with JFT JFT AND keep a good defense AND keep a good defense, you're probably the best Alpha player I know.

You probably worked your ass off in training mode. Congrats. You're a sick player. Why didn't I see any vids of your Alpha ?

When someone starts resorting to strawman fallacies, I usually stop responding.

This has nothing to do with the JFT~JFT, or how well someone can maintain a good defense. Nor does it have anything to do with how I play alpha. So don't put words in my mouth. This is about you saying that Sakura Twister is not a punishing tool.

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

I'm not gonna reply to you in the Pyrrha VS Pyrrha O. It sucks that you don't know Pyrrha Omega that much. I'll leave this to others to comment.

What I'm expecting and needing to nerfed from Pyrrha Omega is her stab damages, 'cause they're considered high damage as an AT.

LOLOLOL! I played Omega for 3 months and became quite good with be lol. I definitely know and understand Omega. Omega is top tier Pyrrha is not lol. Everybody knows Omega is better than her. Lol!

They are punishers. You don't nerf punish-y character's punishers lol. Also, I don't see why you dont complain about aPat's JFT. It is i12(Faster than Pyrrha's AS B and Omega's NS B and DNS B), leads to 72 meterless damage(More with clean hits), has good range, hits grounded, and still does full damage vs midair opponents(236B doesn't due to no AT). aPat's JFT is just as good if not better.

 

[taffertier]

aPat's JFT is just as good if not better.

Isnt that because JFT requires working fingers and brain, while DNS and NS B can be accomplished by having your dog walk on the controller?

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

Isnt that because JFT requires working fingers and brain, while DNS and NS B can be accomplished by having your dog walk on the controller?

Difficulty means absolutely nothing at all. By your logic, your are pretty much saying that Asty's 4[A+B] is better than Ivy's iCS simply because its a lot easier. Ok maybe that was a bad example lol but you should understand what I'm trying to say.