Balance Patch Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hmm i can only speak about sieg but he didn't whiff that much in the pre realase version 1.00. As is known, he got nerfed pretty hard in the 1.01 patch and one of the points was the removal of the majority of his tracking and the removal of the auto align feature on many of his moves, which then caused a lot of his moves to whiff.

Should be pretty easy to fix the whiffs but they are probably scared of giving him back some of his tracking. I bet its the same for Raph. PS wants this chars to be very linear and easy to step.

I bet this is what causes me to be salty about well tracking moves in general lol.
 
taffertier said:
This still doesnt sound too insurmountable to me. They can just add stun properties to some moves, allow him to get a good combo off of it, improve the frames of some moves. Really all that's getting in the way is his whiffing issues and how he feels like an incomplete character. And right now i'm not worried about how he feels, just how good he is, and i think with some added stuns, better combo potential, and some improved moves he can be more than satisfactory. The only thing that bothers me are his whiffing problems, cause Siegfried has a lot as well and PS must know about them, yet they still exist 2 patches later. Either they really dont know about them or they're currently unable to fix them.
Click to expand...

(stun were already added in 1.02.....fortunately despite the nerf at least they finished the character....)

What i am saying is they should consider raph has many issues and weaknesses.
This can be done easily changing some properties.

Deciding wich and testing instead will require lot of work....not that raph as it is risk to be OP with any buffs but without a good testing they will just add few OP moves making him weak and boring or just add useless buffs.

If they are lazy instead they could just bring back scIV raph...
All his moves are still in scV (prepK can replace prepA) just adapt moves properties and damage while considering 236B should be able to punish some moves they made lot safer -.-
 
Raph's 236B is an awesome whiff punish. It's not meant for block punishes.

Making 33A safe on block and more + on hit and adding tracking to 6A's right side as well as its current left tracking would help Raph a lot, in my opinion.
 
used to punish many moves on block so i don t think its not meant to.....they somehow lowered many unsafeness of heavy pushback moves from -20 to -18 :| i doubt they even considered raph while doing it.
33A is slow and short it's not useful as being an 8wr move lose many frames if used as antistep.

6A is high, raph suffers step and that is legit, but suffers crouch also and that is too much his prep is still bad on hit.
 
Funny the only thing I want is buffs for characters that clearly need them. I have never seen any game developer manage to nerf anything effectively for competitive play they all suck at it.

The game was fine initially the biggest issue it had was high damage on really fast characters. Which really just required changing number values.
 
Other than putting Viola's damage back to it's previous level and maybe tweaking Mitsu a bit, I don't think really anything else aside from whiffing issues should be touched.

As a Yoshi player, I'll say neuter his CE and you may as well just take his gauge away all together. It already barely combos and when it does it scales more than fairly and his BE's are situational at best.

Nerfing moves like aPat's JF Twister or Cervy's iGDR defeats the purpose of learning them. Why have JF's at all if other character can do the same damage with basic non technical stuff. Both of those moves are situational and highly punishable. If someone can iGDR me 3 times in a row, they deserve the 100 points of damage. Unlike Mitsu or Viola or Maxi getting it off of moves than take significantly less skill with less risk involved.

Also NM doesn't need anymore nerfs. Leave the guy alone.
 
Oboro said:
Other than putting Viola's damage back to it's previous level and maybe tweaking Mitsu a bit, I don't think really anything else aside from whiffing issues should be touched.

As a Yoshi player, I'll say neuter his CE and you may as well just take his gauge away all together. It already barely combos and when it does it scales more than fairly and his BE's are situational at best.
Click to expand...

Lol wut? Yoshi's CE is one of the best due to high damage and being able to combo easily adding about 50-60 more with scaling. It has to scale cause if it didn't, he'd probably be the most broken character.

Oboro said:
Nerfing moves like aPat's JF Twister or Cervy's iGDR defeats the purpose of learning them. Why have JF's at all if other character can do the same damage with basic non technical stuff. Both of those moves are situational and highly punishable. If someone can iGDR me 3 times in a row, they deserve the 100 points of damage. Unlike Mitsu or Viola or Maxi getting it off of moves than take significantly less skill with less risk involved.
Click to expand...

The only way iGDR combos can get 100 or more damage is with 1 or 2 type C clean hits. Very unlikely. Also Maxi has average meterless damage and slightly above average metered combos.

Oboro said:
Also Nightmare doesn't need anymore nerfs. Leave the guy alone.
Click to expand...
Yeah why not nerf his 100 damage frame trapping, whiff punishing, post guard burst GS B?
 
Paranormal_Oreo said:
Lol wut? Yoshi's CE is one of the best due to high damage and being able to combo easily adding about 50-60 more with scaling. It has to scale cause if it didn't, he'd probably be the most broken character.



The only way iGDR combos can get 100 or more damage is with 1 or 2 type C clean hits. Very unlikely. Also Maxi has average meterless damage and slightly above average metered combos.


Yeah why not nerf his 100 damage frame trapping, whiff punishing, post guard burst GS B?
Click to expand...


His CE only combos off of a couple moves. One is the ultra slow, but still handy 22K but the tech traps with UBs do more damage here anyway. It combos off of ch MCF but again there are more damaging options. It will also combo off of ch 66A BE but it's a huge meter cost and it does virtually the same damage as if you have just landed it solo. It's best use it post GI or when it can punish or traps from 22K, FLEA {B}. Many CEs punish more and combo off of more options and their characters have a much more viable BE game.

iGDR requiring clean hits to land 100 damage only supports my claim that nerfing it's damage is unnecessary. It's a tricky enough move with heavy risks when you miss it that is unsafe on block. It should be a damaging tool when it lands. Same as JF Twister.

I just don't think NM needs any more nerfs. He's not the only character with high damage frame traps and whiffing against anyone is going to cause you pain really. He's getting very predictable to JG IMO and his transitions have holes in them. He's a risk/ reward character.

I understand Raph sucks but it doesn't mean the solution is making all character suck equally. Only a couple need to be buffed and only a couple need to be toned down. Most of the cast is just fine.
 
Maxi
-Make 1B force stand on CH so RO AK can combo.
-give his Neutral Guard a higher clean hit rate.

That is all I require for him outside of fixes too his whiffing issues.
 
Thanks for this Belial.

APat:
33B/2363B punishable more on block; maintain distance on block.
JF T to JF T is easier to do.

Leixia:
22_88K KND on hit. 24 damage plus no combo is crap.
66B,B jailing. Second hit is easy to sidestep and whiff when the first hit is blocked.
3A+B more range.
(3B+K),K positive on block.
6K,K having no pushback, so you get to mixup after.

Natsu:
A:6 slower frames (i10 to i13 will do).
22_88A punishable on block.
Poison Dart stunning ground opponents again.
BE throw has a smaller escape window.
66B should have no pushback, so other characters can punish it. It's so far one of her best moves.

Pyrrha O.:
1K tracking. This was her only good low, but a good low that is really easy to step.
6A more range.
CE nerf damage. Instead of NSA not comboing to CE, nerf CE damage instead. About 10 points.
DNS B:4 nerf damage.
66A safe (it's at least AA punishable by Pyrrha O/Pyrrha). Why Pyrrha has a safe 66A while Pyrrha O doesn't?
NSB:4 nerf damage.
 
anyone come up with a list of "retardedly good moves" ? Not the changes that would fix them, but which moves are the key trouble makers and not the ones on the fence?
 
WuHT said:
anyone come up with a list of "retardedly good moves" ? Not the changes that would fix them, but which moves are the key trouble makers and not the ones on the fence?
Click to expand...

aPat's JF Twister would be number 1# on any list. But I'm not sure whether it's fair to nerf something strictly based on theory (read: not possible) instead of practice (actual play). I'm mainly bringing this move up because of it's punishing ability.
 
Noregrets said:
Mitsu 4b is great but JF twister shuts down 90% of a character's movelist. Way more dominant than Mitsu 4b.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Gotta weigh the pro's and con's like this....mistu's 4b if you block it well safe on block and the tracking is really good now can u punish it on block? not really due to it's pushback..and anyone can do 4b not everyone can do alpha's JF twister(unless u took the time to use him not just button mashing) ...and no alpha player uses JF twister to shutdown 90% of someone's movelists..too much of a mental block on the alpha player to punish every move thats -12 on block, not only that but JF twister is unsafe as hell on block so with this...Im with reave JF twister has nothing on mitsu's 4b.
 
Some of these are the worst things you can possibly wish for. Ever...
YoshiKatYoko said:
APat:
33B/2363B punishable more on block; maintain distance on block.
JF T to JF T is easier to do.
Click to expand...

Not much of a problem at all with the 66B and 33_99B being punishable. Just like -11 or something. About the double JFT combo being easier, either don't use him, don't do double JFT(Just 1 then runup+mixup), or learn to do it.

YoshiKatYoko said:
Leixia:
22_88K KND on hit. 24 damage plus no combo is crap.
66B,B jailing. Second hit is easy to sidestep and whiff when the first hit is blocked.
3A+B more range.
(3B+K),K positive on block.
6K,K having no pushback, so you get to mixup after.
Click to expand...

22_88K KND was removed for a reason. It was WAY to good. 24 damage invisible low that KNDs is crazy. 66B, B jailing is fine I guess. People should learn to JG it anyways. 3B+K, K being positive on block is also insane. Asking for WAY to much. It already does enough guard damage.

YoshiKatYoko said:
Natsu:
A:6 slower frames (i10 to i13 will do).
22_88A punishable on block.
Poison Dart stunning ground opponents again.
BE throw has a smaller escape window.
66B should have no pushback, so other characters can punish it. It's so far one of her best moves.
Click to expand...

Having A:6 being slower is literally the stupidest thing I have EVER heard. It would be almost useless. It be much worse at punishing, combo fillers, and think about. Who thinks an i13 -14 on block attack is good compared to an i10 -14 on block punisher? If you were to slow that down, you would have to make her A i13 too. Terrible. Making 22_88A punishable on block is also terrible. Same with removing 66B's pushback. You really want to destroy all of her best moves. With FC A+B ground stunning again... NO... just NO. They took that away so she couldn't get 120-130 meterless/wall less damage. With a wall she could then easily get 160-180. A+G BE being harder to break is also a NO. It already has the best back-RO potential in the game.

YoshiKatYoko said:
Pyrrha O.:
1K tracking. This was her only good low, but a good low that is really easy to step.
6A more range.
CE nerf damage. Instead of NSA not comboing to CE, nerf CE damage instead. About 10 points.
DNS B:4 nerf damage.
66A safe (it's at least AA punishable by Pyrrha O/Pyrrha). Why Pyrrha has a safe 66A while Pyrrha O doesn't?
NSB:4 nerf damage.
Click to expand...
If 1K tracks, then say hello to an almost-in-the-same-league as Cervy's 1A, B low. It already has a TJ built in and ignores the 'guts' mechanic because its 22 damage on NH. It can already be comboed off of on CH for a possible 51 or 57(DNS B character dependent). The only thing then making Cervy's 1A, B better is the possible damage and the fact that its 7 frames faster at i17. 6A having more range is something I can agree to though. Nerfing CE damage is also a no-no. Ezio's is just as strong and could clean hit but no one complains about that. Omega's CE damage looks like so much just because of it only being 2 hits compared to Ezio's being 4 hits. Again with the killing moves that make a character good. Why would yoy ever nerf damage of DNS B:4 and NS B:4? Yes they are damaging and really quick but she needs it. She punishes you hard for making mistakes. Both Pyrrha's and Omega's are semi-safe. I think its because they are totally different characters.
 
Mitsu's 4B shuts down 70% most characters movelists(I've chased him down and done Algol's 66B when expecting it and he still got away), tracks, does almost as much damage without requiring a just input, is safe, and does great guard burst damage.
So while JF twister shuts down 90% of some characters movelist(which is a bit of an over statement imho since punishing some moves with it is difficult), Mitsu's shuts down a huge amount too, can stop movement, and even guessing they're going for it leaves you less options than if you expect them to go for twister.
 
JF Twister doesn't shut down 90% of characters moves. If you use it any time other than went it's guaranteed to hit (combo or punish) you are putting yourself into a situation where one of you is going to lose 70+ health. I think MCF is better than JF Twister but let's not spread that too much, they already nerfed it a bit for 5.
 
WuHT said:
anyone come up with a list of "retardedly good moves" ? Not the changes that would fix them, but which moves are the key trouble makers and not the ones on the fence?
Click to expand...

JF twister
iGDR
Mitsu 4B
Double Nemesis Step B (pyrrha omega)

My personal list. I would have added some more moves but i wasnt too sure how they'd effect the character, and these are the main ones.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom