Frame advantage

DADA

DADA

[08] Mercenary
Hey guys, I have a question for you that I have been wondering for some time now.

I would say I am familiar with the basics of frame data and how things like block punishing work. But I have questions regarding frame advantages. Some moves obviously leave you at + frames (either when they hit or are blocked by the opponent). When you're at a frame advantage, your next move will come out so so many frames earlier than your opponents move. But I can't really figure out how I should transfer this knowledge to my game. When at a frame advantage, depending on the move I use, it will hit the opponent before their hit connects, resulting in a CH (counterhit). But fairly many people know this, and when they are hit by an attack that puts me in a frame advantage, they just escape into their shell and start blocking.

- What should I do in this scenario?

Is this the time to start to use my more powerful moves with larger i-frames, that will faster deplete my opponents guard gauge? Or should I attempt to throw the opponent? Basically, I'm not that sure what to do when I have the frame advantage, because if I keep attacking after attaining frame advantage, they will just block, and the advantage goes away, or they get the advantage.

Will someone enlighten me?
 
Well, there is no straight answer to this because it all depends on your opponent. Not everyone is the same. Some people will try to interrupt you despite being at frame disadvantage, some people will block, some will try to JG and others will often use an evasive move.

See how your opponent reacts when you gain the advantage. If he blocks you can throw or use a move that will hurt his guard quite a bit. If he tries to interrupt, pick your best move for a CH etc It's all about reading your opponent well.
 
Hi, and thanks for your answer. For some reason I was under the impression that there was a set thing to do when I had frame advantage - obviously that is not the case. I will try to apply this info to my game. Thanks again.
 
if they block every time, you can go for:
-throws
-lows
-50% mixups (this game is full of them -.-)
-guard damage
-another frame advantage string
-or just use those frames to get at a confortable distance....
 
Thanks for your answer. I've been doing the things on your list to some extent, but it's nice to have a straightforward list of some of my options. But could you explain to me what a 50% mixup is? Is that where I do a mid attack or something?
 
DADA said:
Thanks for your answer. I've been doing the things on your list to some extent, but it's nice to have a straightforward list of some of my options. But could you explain to me what a 50% mixup is? Is that where I do a mid attack or something?
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A 50/50 mix up means it's either get hit with a low/high/ or a mid. Examples include attacking someone while they're down, mid/low mix up at low health, and breaking throws. There are also specific stance examples like Sieg's SRSH or Mitsu's Mist stance. But the reason they call them 50/50s are because you have to think "Are they going to do a low/high or a mid?"
 
Ok, so a 50% mixup is basically a scenario where my opponent has two options, either block high/("mid") - and risk to face a throw or low, or block low - and risk getting hit with a mid, though blocking lows and duck any standing throw attempts. Did I understand the concept of 50% mixup correctly?

So I realize I've been doing these 50% mixups pretty much every match I'm in :-P Lol. So a 50% mixup is a part of the okizeme when my opponent is grounded and close to me, right?
 
DADA said:
So I realize I've been doing these 50% mixups pretty much every match I'm in :-P Lol. So a 50% mixup is a part of the okizeme when my opponent is grounded and close to me, right?
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Yes. Don't forget there are also other 50/50s, it's 90% of Astaroth's game plan. xD
If you want I can give you specific examples that don't include being grounded.
 
Ok then.

Pyrrha Omega's B+G chain throw (you have to press A or B on second part).
Sieg's SRSH (mid or low).
DJ's wavedashing (mid or low).
Natsu's Hover (mid or low).
Natsu (when you're at low health) A:6 or throw.
Cervante's post 4bBE (throw or mid).
Every character in the game (when you're at low health) low/throw or mid.

I hope that helps.
 
Thanks for the list. I have been doing so called 50/50 mixups for quite some time it seems... Another perfect example of a low/mid mixup is the scenario where you are trapped(blocking) in Viola's CE, and Viola can do either a mid or low to "break" the guard and continue into f.ex. a 3B combo.

I'm sorry if I'm being difficult, but if you are familiar with either Ivy, Tira or Viola, could you give me a similar list with examples of 50/50 mixups? Atleast Ivy/Tira, as I am familiar with some of Violas most common.

Thanks again (the list isn't necessary, as I am asking for much, I know...)
 
DADA said:
I'm sorry if I'm being difficult, but if you are familiar with either Ivy, Tira or Viola, could you give me a similar list with examples of 50/50 mixups? Atleast Ivy/Tira, as I am familiar with some of Violas most common.

Thanks again (the list isn't necessary, as I am asking for much, I know...)
Click to expand...

I only know a few, vaguely, for Ivy/Tira.

Anything out of Updraft K vs. Updraft A or B for Tira can be a 50/50

For Ivy her command grab/CE and any mid can be a 50/50

Some characters just have naturally better 50/50's (Mitsu/Yoshi/Maxi/Natsu), others are relatively limited. In my eyes Tira and Ivy are relatively limited as 50/50 characters, but mind games play a big part in mix-ups as well.
 
DADA said:
I'm sorry if I'm being difficult, but if you are familiar with either Ivy, Tira or Viola, could you give me a similar list with examples of 50/50 mixups? Atleast Ivy/Tira, as I am familiar with some of Violas most common.
Click to expand...
Viola:
SET 6B+K(block), 6B or 3A or 1K or 2A or grab
CE(block), 4B or 1K or B, B
Slide([6] K) or 66B
WR B(hit), 66A or 66B
SET 6B+K 1K(block or hit), 1K or grab or 3B
2A(hit) FC 2K or FC 2B or WR A or grab

Ivy:
CE(hit), 9B(catches all rolls) or 3B+K(loses to left and right rolls but does more guard damage)
CE or 2A+B or grab or 2K
(vs grounded)bK or 2A+B or CE or 1K
(vs getting up opponent)3[K] or 2A+B or 1K
B, B(hit) 2A or 2K or 66A or 3B
Slide([6] K) or 66B.

Tira:
Slide([6] K) or JS/GS 66B.
JS/GS 236K or JS/GS 66B.
GS 66B BE/ GS 666B BE(block), GS 66A or GS 3B or GS 66B BE/GS 666B BE or grab or 236K BE.
GS 4K(vs midair(combo)), 1A(tech trap) or 44.
GS 22_88B(block), GS 22_88B or GS 3B or GS 236K BE or GS 3A or GS 44.
Just some very basic mixup.
 
Wow, thanks to everyone who replied for some very informative answers, it's nice to have a well organized list with examples of mixups :-) Thanks.
 
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