RIP DLC

Mamoru_Hasukage said:
I typed quite a bit, so here ya go. I hope you guys read all of it and think about it.

In a perfect world, I see SC6 like this:

Owned and developed by Project Soul and co developed/produced with Platinum Games on their own dime.
Think about that for a moment. PS would have freedom to work on it at their own pace, PG would help in the fine tuning and animation bits and the customers would get a great item.

In reality: No way would that ever happen even if all the money that was needed was achieved. The major publishers would most likely never give PS the time to finish it. Hell, they might even do more of the DLC bs when said DLC was already written to disk (thankfully, scv was not that much of a problem in that regard).

What I think...no...what I know is the problem with making another SC game is not particularly DLC or publishers (though those are huge contributing factors), it is more so that the community and the developers communication is not so good as a whole. This is a problem considering that we all have feedback on this (obviously, just read every single post on this site alone), yet we have many huge roadblocks that we do not even think about.

A.) Different languages: Majority of these guys only speak Japanese, and SC is a franchise with fan bases in many countries. Not much can be done about this, however, I do believe that is highly possible to work something out rather soon.

B.) Division in Ideals: This spans into either west vs east thoughts (which are not too different depending on who you ask), but also (and more importantly) Hardcore VS Casual. Let us be honest here, we all are not gonna get our perfect game until we all realize that both sides have equally important input to making a fully realized product...

A full product must be made to sell to the general audience, but there must also be a rich rewarding combat system that equally draws people in. I care not if the story itself is trash or not (which it is), however, the mode itself gives someone something to do with the game and unlockables such as concept art or armor parts help in such a way. Yet the latter is a bit more difficult to tackle. Making any game that is rewarding enough would take, at best, 3 years (assuming you have the most amazing team ever. making games is not easy).

C.) Market: Lets face facts people, the fighting game as a whole is being kicked out the door more and more every day. What is the hottest games? Mostly shovel wear first person shooters. What is the most quality of games? Usually, a fighting game is never mentioned, you get great games do not get me wrong, but the fighting game itself has lost touch. Personally, I think more games that want to be fighting should try the more boxing and bushido blade routes....But, fact is, none of us can remember the last time a fighting game was brand new and was well received enough to warrant a game of the year or even commercials.

Yet these can all be helped. More and more you guys keep supporting soul calibur in hopes it will make things better for the series. If we want any chance of this succeeding in any way shape or form 3 things must happen. First, Bamco listens and we actually have an open dialogue that works. Second, new designers who want to keep this alive or make another series superior must step up into this field. Finally, you guys keep doing what you are doing.

We all have complaints about sc5, but the best thing one can do is continue it's support and keep mentioning what good can come of changes that are needed (and I mean needed for a whole product including it's lasting power). If you dislike how sc5 is now, best thing you can do is support PS and give them reasons to continue. There does need to be many changes, but we need to let both PS and Bamco know that we need to be heard on this. This is a series we love and we should not let our immaturity take hold of what we love so dear.

Troll if you must, but this is what needs to happen as a fan base. If you love it, do what you can.
Click to expand...

Give this guy a Klondike Bar.

But seriously, you make a lot of good points that I think are rarely considered. Especially the 'B' section. Every single SC player has their view about what PS is doing right, what they're doing wrong, and how they can improve the series. And no matter what you'd like to believe, the next fan's opinion is just as valid as yours. So how can PS please everyone? Honestly, they can't. But by listening to the opinions of both their hardcore and their casual fans and weighing everything carefully, they could create a game that has just enough of both to satisfy most fans.

Polls on their website might be a good way to get opinions from their international fanbase without having to worry too much about the language barrier. Just a thought.
 
Mamoru_Hasukage said:
I typed quite a bit, so here ya go. I hope you guys read all of it and think about it.

In a perfect world, I see SC6 like this:

Owned and developed by Project Soul and co developed/produced with Platinum Games on their own dime.
Think about that for a moment. PS would have freedom to work on it at their own pace, PG would help in the fine tuning and animation bits and the customers would get a great item.

In reality: No way would that ever happen even if all the money that was needed was achieved. The major publishers would most likely never give PS the time to finish it. Hell, they might even do more of the DLC bs when said DLC was already written to disk (thankfully, scv was not that much of a problem in that regard).

What I think...no...what I know is the problem with making another SC game is not particularly DLC or publishers (though those are huge contributing factors), it is more so that the community and the developers communication is not so good as a whole. This is a problem considering that we all have feedback on this (obviously, just read every single post on this site alone), yet we have many huge roadblocks that we do not even think about.

A.) Different languages: Majority of these guys only speak Japanese, and SC is a franchise with fan bases in many countries. Not much can be done about this, however, I do believe that is highly possible to work something out rather soon.

B.) Division in Ideals: This spans into either west vs east thoughts (which are not too different depending on who you ask), but also (and more importantly) Hardcore VS Casual. Let us be honest here, we all are not gonna get our perfect game until we all realize that both sides have equally important input to making a fully realized product...

A full product must be made to sell to the general audience, but there must also be a rich rewarding combat system that equally draws people in. I care not if the story itself is trash or not (which it is), however, the mode itself gives someone something to do with the game and unlockables such as concept art or armor parts help in such a way. Yet the latter is a bit more difficult to tackle. Making any game that is rewarding enough would take, at best, 3 years (assuming you have the most amazing team ever. making games is not easy).

C.) Market: Lets face facts people, the fighting game as a whole is being kicked out the door more and more every day. What is the hottest games? Mostly shovel wear first person shooters. What is the most quality of games? Usually, a fighting game is never mentioned, you get great games do not get me wrong, but the fighting game itself has lost touch. Personally, I think more games that want to be fighting should try the more boxing and bushido blade routes....But, fact is, none of us can remember the last time a fighting game was brand new and was well received enough to warrant a game of the year or even commercials.

Yet these can all be helped. More and more you guys keep supporting soul calibur in hopes it will make things better for the series. If we want any chance of this succeeding in any way shape or form 3 things must happen. First, Bamco listens and we actually have an open dialogue that works. Second, new designers who want to keep this alive or make another series superior must step up into this field. Finally, you guys keep doing what you are doing.

We all have complaints about sc5, but the best thing one can do is continue it's support and keep mentioning what good can come of changes that are needed (and I mean needed for a whole product including it's lasting power). If you dislike how sc5 is now, best thing you can do is support PS and give them reasons to continue. There does need to be many changes, but we need to let both PS and Bamco know that we need to be heard on this. This is a series we love and we should not let our immaturity take hold of what we love so dear.

Troll if you must, but this is what needs to happen as a fan base. If you love it, do what you can.
Click to expand...

You, good sir, definitely deserve a round of applause.
1233495358_appl3456.gif
 
EternalArcadia said:
no >.<
A little thing I have a huge hatred for, Legendary Souls has Siegfried and Nightmares 1p from Soul Calibur IV, but not anywhere else in the game, meaning its on the disc just not for players to use -_-
Click to expand...
Don't forget cervantes's demon form in Legendary Souls, ahhh Triple Perfect Geo de Ray!!
 
Mamoru_Hasukage said:
I typed quite a bit, so here ya go. I hope you guys read all of it and think about it.

In a perfect world, I see SC6 like this:

Owned and developed by Project Soul and co developed/produced with Platinum Games on their own dime.
Think about that for a moment. PS would have freedom to work on it at their own pace, PG would help in the fine tuning and animation bits and the customers would get a great item.

In reality: No way would that ever happen even if all the money that was needed was achieved. The major publishers would most likely never give PS the time to finish it. Hell, they might even do more of the DLC bs when said DLC was already written to disk (thankfully, scv was not that much of a problem in that regard).

What I think...no...what I know is the problem with making another SC game is not particularly DLC or publishers (though those are huge contributing factors), it is more so that the community and the developers communication is not so good as a whole. This is a problem considering that we all have feedback on this (obviously, just read every single post on this site alone), yet we have many huge roadblocks that we do not even think about.

A.) Different languages: Majority of these guys only speak Japanese, and SC is a franchise with fan bases in many countries. Not much can be done about this, however, I do believe that is highly possible to work something out rather soon.

B.) Division in Ideals: This spans into either west vs east thoughts (which are not too different depending on who you ask), but also (and more importantly) Hardcore VS Casual. Let us be honest here, we all are not gonna get our perfect game until we all realize that both sides have equally important input to making a fully realized product...

A full product must be made to sell to the general audience, but there must also be a rich rewarding combat system that equally draws people in. I care not if the story itself is trash or not (which it is), however, the mode itself gives someone something to do with the game and unlockables such as concept art or armor parts help in such a way. Yet the latter is a bit more difficult to tackle. Making any game that is rewarding enough would take, at best, 3 years (assuming you have the most amazing team ever. making games is not easy).

C.) Market: Lets face facts people, the fighting game as a whole is being kicked out the door more and more every day. What is the hottest games? Mostly shovel wear first person shooters. What is the most quality of games? Usually, a fighting game is never mentioned, you get great games do not get me wrong, but the fighting game itself has lost touch. Personally, I think more games that want to be fighting should try the more boxing and bushido blade routes....But, fact is, none of us can remember the last time a fighting game was brand new and was well received enough to warrant a game of the year or even commercials.

Yet these can all be helped. More and more you guys keep supporting soul calibur in hopes it will make things better for the series. If we want any chance of this succeeding in any way shape or form 3 things must happen. First, Bamco listens and we actually have an open dialogue that works. Second, new designers who want to keep this alive or make another series superior must step up into this field. Finally, you guys keep doing what you are doing.

We all have complaints about sc5, but the best thing one can do is continue it's support and keep mentioning what good can come of changes that are needed (and I mean needed for a whole product including it's lasting power). If you dislike how sc5 is now, best thing you can do is support PS and give them reasons to continue. There does need to be many changes, but we need to let both PS and Bamco know that we need to be heard on this. This is a series we love and we should not let our immaturity take hold of what we love so dear.

Troll if you must, but this is what needs to happen as a fan base. If you love it, do what you can.
Click to expand...
tumblr_m4jad2i6ah1qcoa6s.gif


Just everything you said I agree with. The Hardcore vs. Casual comment especially.
 
Yeah, I'm going to put that in the "not happening" column. Patches cost money to create all the same only they're not purchased by consumers. If financially they can't be bothered to release ONE last paid DLC pack, I highly doubt they're going to release a free patch.
 
I wasn't saying the patch wouldn't be free. My use of the word "free" was superfluous because it's six AM and I'm tired.

What I'm saying is that I'd be really surprised if they released a patch at all.
 
The patch has been planned long time ago. The thing is they a) didn't want to release the patch shortly before EVO and b) wanted to let the results of EVO affect the patch. It also takes some time between passing a patch to Sony/Microsoft until it finally gets released (about 1 month is what i am hearing).
 
ChaosK said:
The patch has been planned long time ago. The thing is they a) didn't want to release the patch shortly before EVO and b) wanted to let the results of EVO affect the patch. It also takes some time between passing a patch to Sony/Microsoft until it finally gets released (about 1 month is what i am hearing).
Click to expand...
Don't forget that SBO is coming up. I doubt they'd want to patch the game shortly before one of their largest tournaments.
 
Slade said:
Don't forget that SBO is coming up. I doubt they'd want to patch the game shortly before one of their largest tournaments.
Click to expand...

When exactly does SBO start? I can't seem to find the date


Mamoru_Hasukage said:
I typed quite a bit, so here ya go. I hope you guys read all of it and think about it.

In a perfect world, I see SC6 like this:

Owned and developed by Project Soul and co developed/produced with Platinum Games on their own dime.
Think about that for a moment. PS would have freedom to work on it at their own pace, PG would help in the fine tuning and animation bits and the customers would get a great item.

In reality: No way would that ever happen even if all the money that was needed was achieved. The major publishers would most likely never give PS the time to finish it. Hell, they might even do more of the DLC bs when said DLC was already written to disk (thankfully, scv was not that much of a problem in that regard).

What I think...no...what I know is the problem with making another SC game is not particularly DLC or publishers (though those are huge contributing factors), it is more so that the community and the developers communication is not so good as a whole. This is a problem considering that we all have feedback on this (obviously, just read every single post on this site alone), yet we have many huge roadblocks that we do not even think about.

A.) Different languages: Majority of these guys only speak Japanese, and SC is a franchise with fan bases in many countries. Not much can be done about this, however, I do believe that is highly possible to work something out rather soon.

B.) Division in Ideals: This spans into either west vs east thoughts (which are not too different depending on who you ask), but also (and more importantly) Hardcore VS Casual. Let us be honest here, we all are not gonna get our perfect game until we all realize that both sides have equally important input to making a fully realized product...

A full product must be made to sell to the general audience, but there must also be a rich rewarding combat system that equally draws people in. I care not if the story itself is trash or not (which it is), however, the mode itself gives someone something to do with the game and unlockables such as concept art or armor parts help in such a way. Yet the latter is a bit more difficult to tackle. Making any game that is rewarding enough would take, at best, 3 years (assuming you have the most amazing team ever. making games is not easy).

C.) Market: Lets face facts people, the fighting game as a whole is being kicked out the door more and more every day. What is the hottest games? Mostly shovel wear first person shooters. What is the most quality of games? Usually, a fighting game is never mentioned, you get great games do not get me wrong, but the fighting game itself has lost touch. Personally, I think more games that want to be fighting should try the more boxing and bushido blade routes....But, fact is, none of us can remember the last time a fighting game was brand new and was well received enough to warrant a game of the year or even commercials.

Yet these can all be helped. More and more you guys keep supporting soul calibur in hopes it will make things better for the series. If we want any chance of this succeeding in any way shape or form 3 things must happen. First, Bamco listens and we actually have an open dialogue that works. Second, new designers who want to keep this alive or make another series superior must step up into this field. Finally, you guys keep doing what you are doing.

We all have complaints about sc5, but the best thing one can do is continue it's support and keep mentioning what good can come of changes that are needed (and I mean needed for a whole product including it's lasting power). If you dislike how sc5 is now, best thing you can do is support PS and give them reasons to continue. There does need to be many changes, but we need to let both PS and Bamco know that we need to be heard on this. This is a series we love and we should not let our immaturity take hold of what we love so dear.

Troll if you must, but this is what needs to happen as a fan base. If you love it, do what you can.
Click to expand...


PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Mamoru_Hasukage said:
Usually, a fighting game is never mentioned, you get great games do not get me wrong, but the fighting game itself has lost touch. Personally, I think more games that want to be fighting should try the more boxing and bushido blade routes....But, fact is, none of us can remember the last time a fighting game was brand new and was well received enough to warrant a game of the year or even commercials.
Click to expand...
I had to read this twice, and realized you said this. My input on this statement.....

I think of it like this. The market/mainstream audience like to choose these few games: Tekken, Street Fighter (Street Fighter 2 was the starting point), and Mortal Kombat. Popular of course, but there is one main gripe that bothers me about Tekken and Street Fighter. They borrow from other games, and I think VF could be put into this equation as well. Think about it.

During the 90s these were popular games, but something was missing about them. That's where other games in the 90s solved those problems, and once those popular games included those features as well, the game who first used it got left into dust, because the popular games had that and then some.

Street Fighter 2, when it was first released, lacked many things: Super Specials, Jumping specials, being able to jump twice, and probably more than that. Super specials were first introduced by one of the SNK games I believe, while I know that jumping specials and being able to jump twice actually came from World Heroes. Street Fighter borrowed that, and the rest was history for them, while World Heroes is left in the dust and SNK had to go bankrupt at some point, until they rose up again by releasing the King of Fighter series.

VF, the first to use 3d polygons, but not the first fighting game to use 3D, actually lacked a sidestep feature. This game was like Street Fighter 4 but without the specials. The first game to actually use this feature was Battle Arena Toshinden, which was a great game back then might I add. Plus it was the first 3d weapon fighting game, while including specials along the way, but I'm sure people didn't like the idea of sidestepping special attacks. Other criticism was Battle Arena Toshinden's slow paced gameplay. Other games pretty much tore this one apart. Tekken and VF took the sidestepping, Soul Edge became its spiritual successor with faster gameplay and neglects the use of special attacks, which each character only had two back then, while the "sidestepping special attacks" in 3D games was solved from Street Fighter EX (I may be wrong about that one). Battle Arena Toshinden's popularity dropped after that.

Mortal Kombat was known for its blood and gore, so that pretty much put it on the map in the Western Audiences. All they had to do was that, and it was guaranteed to stay. Every game, except maybe Killer Instinct and Eternal Champions, were unsuccessful, while I believe games like Weaponlord had potential.

DOA came along and that's where defense was a huge impact. It's advanced countering system, and personally, their amazing interactions to the environment, are what made this series stand out in gameplay. The bouncing physics was just an extra, while the sex appeal was just to put this game into a longer run. Now VF has countering system I believe, but I think they may have had it before. Tekken has it with a few characters, while borrowing the environment idea. DOA still beats them in that department.

I think with most fighting games, it is about solving a problem, rather than using some odd little gimmick (Rage system in Tekkens case). Innovation, I would like to call it while at the same time pushing it to the market as well. Recently, I think Skullgirls is one of those examples that is an innovative game. Blazblue's system is innovative, but visually it looks like Guilty Gear.

A little offtopic from the original discussion, but I do think this should be discussed in another thread though. This is interesting.
 
It's as simple as saying fighting games are less popular with the mainstream because unlike other genres, fighters require that you actually know things about what's on the disk.

I've never bought into this whole "competitive and casual fighting game players have equal input because both are blahblahblahwe'reallsnowflakes and whatever" line of thought. There's just no such thing as a fighter that truly appeals to a casual demographic for more than the standard honeymoon phase. At a certain point, everyone will just get better and then all the casuals have to bitch about how everybody else's character is too strong and they either stop playing or end up ruining the game for everyone else.

The best way and only real to appeal to casuals with a fighting game is to make the execution pretty much braindead, to make even the simple stuff flashy and cool to look at and lots of ancillary crap like costume DLC and what not. And after a while it won't matter because like I said, the non-casuals will just get better and better and the casuals will just get bored. And it happens pretty fast sometimes.

You've just got to have some really specific tastes to be able to enjoy a fighter outside of the competitive scene which is really what they're intended for. It'll get better when/if the online experience for them begins to more closely resemble an arcade rather than the YouTube comments section.

Fighters will never be mainstreamed the way a shooter or an RPG or whatever is because they are big-boy games. It's like Texas Hold'em, I mean sure, you can play it drunk with your friends at 3 AM but it's really meant to be played for blood in an uber-competitive setting. And you're not really playing the game until you're there, and pretty much everyone knows that. Just the nature of this particular beast.
 
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