The future of Soul Calibur

What should be the focus of the next game?

  • Continue the story following the events of SCV

    Votes: 88 50.6%
  • Fill in the story with events from between SCIV and SCV

    Votes: 47 27.0%
  • Reboot of the series starting with SE

    Votes: 30 17.2%
  • Prequel before the events of SE

    Votes: 9 5.2%

  • Total voters
    174
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@solo.

b6 on counter does 28 damage. 4B on counter followed by 3B does 42 damage. I agree with you that b6 is a far better move due to its range and safety. However, if for example you're in a situation where you don't need any range, and you know you can get a CH, then in that particular situation a 4B would be better due to it's 50% higher damage output (28/42).

Granted, situations where b6 would work and 4B wouldn't are far more frequent, while I agree with you that b6 is FAR better, I disagree with you that 4B has no purpose whatsoever.
 
I would say yes to more unique useful moves. Moves with a distinct unique use for different situations and ranges. I will not support movesets with moves that are there just to populate a moveset. For this to happen they would have to make movesets where moves didn't have nearly the same properties while one is much superior to the other. Like the 4B versus B6 case I talked about above, I would actually use 4B if it was i14. Same for 4A, it would actually make a good i14 punisher to force a SRSH mix up (given they added SRSH A+B back in) with the stun.
 
SC4 and its predecessors didn't have very complicated movesets to begin with. And even if a casual found some movesets complicated, there were always other characters with simpler commands. If you didn't want to play an execution heavy character like Ivy, you could always just play Sophitia. There was no need to simplify everybody.
 
Lol should I have talked about how stupid 4A is? That move it literally useless in every way.
If hit, it sets them up for a mid/low mixup from stance, if blocked, very unsafe.

I don't particularly like this move either, but hey, it sets them up for a legit mixup on hit. If you hit them with the mid, that's big damage that comes from that, with the low, mediocre damage.

Say for example I get the CH with 4(A), which knocks them down. Most people think that your next move will be that low kick, so they most of the time block low. I have on a number of occasions gotten a CH B from reverse side hold on wake up, which as you know leads to some pretty nasty damage from combo.

For me, this is one of those "gotchya" moves that people don't expect, and I use it rarely at best.
 
While what you say is true, they could have just made the "useless" moves more useful, instead of chopping them. Imagine SC where everyone had 120+ moves and every single one of them had a purpose, even if some of them were only used for wall/non-wall combos, and none of them served a dual purpose.

Yeah, I may be dreaming, but this is my idea of a perfect game.

Why would you even want that? Why would having 120+ moves be great? It doesn't add depth at all it just creates a mess and even then people would complain that there are too many moves. Imagine having 120+ moves and you only use 20 of them at most because every other move only fits in certain areas of the match. That's basically going the way of tekken where the move sets are huge but only a fraction of them are used.
 
Why would you even want that? Why would having 120+ moves be great? It doesn't add depth at all it just creates a mess and even then people would complain that there are too many moves. Imagine having 120+ moves and you only use 20 of them at most because every other move only fits in certain areas of the match. That's basically going the way of tekken where the move sets are huge but only a fraction of them are used.
Um 120+ moves would actually hurt my brain.......
 
But that's just the thing, they would use more than 20 moves IF and only IF the other 100 or so moves were good.

And besides, knowing that "this move should only be used in this rare situation" takes skill and knowledge. Even with sc5 as it is right now there are moves I ONLY use on wall combos. I don't think this is a bad thing, this is just part of the learning process. Just because move #1 is used 10x more often than move #2, doesn't mean you should forget about move #2 entirely, nor does it make a game better if move #2 is removed from the game entirely.

As long as one move doesn't do everything that another one does, but better in EVERY way imaginable, this won't be an issue. Even with b6 vs 4B there are some rare situations where 4B is the better choice, but taking away this move entirely decrease the depth and complexity of strategies.

As a chess player, I appreciate deep and complicated strategies.

If SC was as complex as I wish it was, it would take years just to master a single character. But if you COULD master a character with 120+ moves where all moves had a purpose, it would (I think) give people a better sense of personal satisfaction in the long run, since the skill barrier would be higher.

I would much rather SC be a game where all moves were super-easy execution wise, but the depth and difficulty came from mastering a character, and mindgames. Imagine if Siegfried had 6 moves for every stance and ALL of them were good in some way, or that every one of his stances had good mix-up potential.

My beef with sc5 is that I feel there is little room for uniqueness. I see the same setups, the same spamming moves, and the same combos from just about everyone. The more I play this game the more and more my strategies match those of other players. We all play copycat to a certain degree.

Now, I know I'm different than most people on this matter, but this is my honest opinion on the matter and why I think the SC series is going in the wrong direction. If people really DID complain about having too many moves in previous game on the basis of it being too hard to learn, then no offense but they probably shouldn't have been playing the game in the first place. There are simpler fighters out there.

Having HUGE movesets opens up the potential for infinite combos, or unforseen "broken" stuff. All they have to do to fix this is change combo scaling to the point where once you reach the 50% life combo barrier, that's it, you're not allowed to do any more damage. Or better yet, once you reach the 50% life marker, you have to wait for the opponent to stand back up to do any more damage, maybe an automatic whiff if you try to juggle them too much. This would also solve the ring-out issue that would come from infinite juggling.

Call me crazy, but I always thought that OVER 50% life combos, ridiculous juggling, or super easy ring outs was the bad part about the game that I always just said "oh well fuck it can't change it, might as well embrace stupidity". And by stupidity, I mean stuff that shouldn't even exist like half of Viola's BS.

Sorry for the long post. I know all-too-well that my idea of a perfect fighting game will never materialize, but this is my honest opinion.
 
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I was gonna say this moveset debate is stupid...

But it isn't.

Both sides are actually right - quality is more important than quantity. Short and long movelists accomplish this.

But it's a matter of which order.

For SC5 onwards, Project Soul apporached the movelists like... Gymnastic strength training. In gymnastic strength training (especially for men), strength is prioritised over muscle. Gain as much strength as you can with the current muscle you have. Muscle is only added when it's needed, not when it's wanted. This is because a gymnast's skill is measured by their strength-to-weight ratio - maximise your strength, minimise your weight.

The movelists are the same. Start small so as to maximise usefulness, then EXPAND on the usefulness in the next sequel. Daishi explicitly said this, and he's an SC2 pro.

It's why the SC5 movelists were small - it was part of the intended Soul series reboot (hence why SC5 was meant to be called Soul Edge 2). Expect a big movelist exapnsion in SC6.
 
Versatility will only get you so far. I find theres no point in varying Lexia's best moves with random mixup in her movelist to keep things interesting. Eventually I'm going to come across someone who's familiar with her shit and then i'll be eating Pyrrha Omega damage. The worst part about SC5 movelists is that about 10-15 moves are actually useful for each character, and the rest are just there for fluff. Even if Apat doesn't know what i'm doing when I do one of Lexia's less than commonly used evades, he can always just double JF twister that shit.
 
I think most people underestimate Leixia. I've decided that she will be the next character I learn.
She reminds me a lot of Lei-Fang in offense. Most combos/moves you have don't need to be completed, or your opponent will pick up on it very quick, and usually they do. The intended "feints", or so it says, can be predictable at times as well. It's more of a sequence rather than options, and even if she has options (like her feints), it doesn't make much of a difference in guarding/defense.

As far as how to compete against others with Leixia? Just be VERY smart about what you are doing and what the opponent is doing, but that's playing as and fighting against any character really.

Versatility will only get you so far. I find theres no point in varying Lexia's best moves with random mixup in her movelist to keep things interesting.
Now that I can agree, yet disagree, especially when you compare her to Xianghua.

But of course Leixia does have time to develop on her own in future installments so I can't judge her just yet, and not expect her to have an extended moveset along the way.
 
Oh I didn't know DOA had that many moves...well im trying out doa 5...just something I gotta get use to I guess.
It's really mostly string variations. There are some characters with smaller movelist like Tina and Bass but they are both grapple characters. Seriously every character has about 10-15 throws on top of the regular moves and now characters are getting stances or additional stances so get that brain ready lol.
 
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