REPROBEAN_CHILD
[14] Master
It was used far less often in SCIV and it didn't have that tracking and the insane push back that sends you flying across the screen.
Which moves are considered lagtactics in SCV?
- Thread starter REPROBEAN_CHILD
- Start date
Reave
[13] Hero
Maxi+lag=well I'm sure you can figure out what it equals.
Slade
[14] Master
Also it was stabbable and didn't knock down except on CH.
So basically it was more like Ezio's 4B in SCIV.
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
Aeon Sand Winger Brave Edge Cancel is the worst of them. I mean :
"is a lzrd dat fly aroun shootin firebals, no fare"
"is a lzrd dat fly aroun shootin firebals, no fare"
Jimbonator
[14] Master
Anything that hits me is a lagtactic.
TwistedAsura
The Wanderer
This thread should not exist haha. Lag tactics are not even a thing anymore in V IMO. Rarely and I mean rarely would I even get hit by a random Rugi 1A in 4. They were not to bad then and they are almost nothing now XD. Only thing you can call a lag tactic is someone using a lag switch haha.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
On a 5-bar connection, I say there's really no such thing as "lag tactics".
Worse than 5 bars, and you could argue that knockdown-lows that fall right on the border of "seeable" and "unseeable" can be considered especially "cheap", but if that's how your opponent plays, then do it right back to them.
3 bars and below, EVERYTHING is a "lag tactic", since the entire match is delayed so much that reacting to moves in the upper i30 range can become difficult to impossible. I don't take any 3-bar matches seriously. You can beat me 100 times on a 3 bar, and I still won't be convinced of your skills as a player. Beat me 3 times on a 5-bar, and I'll concede.
Worse than 5 bars, and you could argue that knockdown-lows that fall right on the border of "seeable" and "unseeable" can be considered especially "cheap", but if that's how your opponent plays, then do it right back to them.
3 bars and below, EVERYTHING is a "lag tactic", since the entire match is delayed so much that reacting to moves in the upper i30 range can become difficult to impossible. I don't take any 3-bar matches seriously. You can beat me 100 times on a 3 bar, and I still won't be convinced of your skills as a player. Beat me 3 times on a 5-bar, and I'll concede.
Solo
[14] Master
3 bars isn't even that bad, you must have bad reactions. It isn't the best but you can definitely react to i30 moves. I can react to i30 moves on a 2 bar and you're complaining about 3 bars.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
This is all so subjective. 30 frames was a rough example anyway.
Let's say for that the sake of argument, human reaction time is 0.15seconds, which is 9 frames. This is pretty generous, considering that most people DON'T have 9-frame reaction time (at least not 9-frame recognition-reaction time). Assuming input lag at a mere 1 frame after delays between your controller and game system, and between the game system and TV, we can assume 10 frames of "delay" is normal even in an offline situation.
Take a 2 or 3 bar connection where the latency is between 150-300ms (estimated value), and you will EASILY have a combined 0.3 to 0.45 seconds of delay, which corresponds to 18 and 27 frames, respectively.
Perhaps "upper i30" was a bit of an exaggeration, but there are PLENTY of knockdown lows in the game that fall around the i25 mark.
Nearly all Slide kicks are under i25
Patroklos' 2A+B is i23 and knocks down on hit.
aPat's 1A: (A: A) is i22 and knocks down and causes huge damage.
Siegfried's 1A is i28 and leads to big damage, especially on counter.
Tira JS 1K is i27 and knocks down.
There's more examples than just these, too. I just don't feel like searching for them right now.
There's a lot of 1A moves that fall in the i29-i35 range that CAN indeed be reacted to on very shitty connections, but you've also got to take into account that reactions only work as TRUE reactions when the attack is deep enough into its animation that your eyes can differentiate it from all other moves and KNOW exactly which move it is, which only adds to the effective delay in timing. Offline this isn't as much of an issue, but it definitely makes things more difficult (but not impossible) online.
Let's say for that the sake of argument, human reaction time is 0.15seconds, which is 9 frames. This is pretty generous, considering that most people DON'T have 9-frame reaction time (at least not 9-frame recognition-reaction time). Assuming input lag at a mere 1 frame after delays between your controller and game system, and between the game system and TV, we can assume 10 frames of "delay" is normal even in an offline situation.
Take a 2 or 3 bar connection where the latency is between 150-300ms (estimated value), and you will EASILY have a combined 0.3 to 0.45 seconds of delay, which corresponds to 18 and 27 frames, respectively.
Perhaps "upper i30" was a bit of an exaggeration, but there are PLENTY of knockdown lows in the game that fall around the i25 mark.
Nearly all Slide kicks are under i25
Patroklos' 2A+B is i23 and knocks down on hit.
aPat's 1A: (A: A) is i22 and knocks down and causes huge damage.
Siegfried's 1A is i28 and leads to big damage, especially on counter.
Tira JS 1K is i27 and knocks down.
There's more examples than just these, too. I just don't feel like searching for them right now.
There's a lot of 1A moves that fall in the i29-i35 range that CAN indeed be reacted to on very shitty connections, but you've also got to take into account that reactions only work as TRUE reactions when the attack is deep enough into its animation that your eyes can differentiate it from all other moves and KNOW exactly which move it is, which only adds to the effective delay in timing. Offline this isn't as much of an issue, but it definitely makes things more difficult (but not impossible) online.
Party Wolf
Administrator
You can't react to 20 frame moves? That's interesting.
Slade
[14] Master
2 bar is when low sweeps start to become unblockable and easy 2 hit launcher combos start to drop.
3 bar is when wonky shit like command throws being unbreakable and 2K → FC A being uninterruptable starts to happen.
Both are unplayable in their own special ways.
3 bar is when wonky shit like command throws being unbreakable and 2K → FC A being uninterruptable starts to happen.
Both are unplayable in their own special ways.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
You're missing the point. Read my post all the way through.
ANYONE can react to 20 frame moves. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a difference between anticipating where the attack will land (mid/low) while reacting to the initiation of a move, and blocking on true reaction.
True reactionary blocking is only possible after the attack has reached some point in it's animation where you KNOW exactly what attack it is. A perfect example of this kind of situation is with Leixia's 22K/22kA. They impact at 28 and 31 frames, respectively, but the point at which either move is fully "reactable" is deep enough into the animation that it becomes very difficult to actually react to the move that's coming out, as opposed to reacting to the mixup and making a guess for your block.
Under laggy circumstances, there comes a point where every mid/low mixup has this same effect, but the reward for using knockdown lows becomes much higher because these attacks now benefit from a buffer that makes them significantly more difficult to block on true reaction. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just something to consider.
Party Wolf
Administrator
Well, I'm sure you can do the same thing to your opponent and win using lows in lag.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
...Yup. Read my first post on this page.
For characters with really high damage and lots of lows that knockdown, this tactic is more effective. Then again, I play Leixia, so it doesn't really work as well for me. Gotta do it the old fashioned way. ^_^
I don't mind. It just gives me a bigger e-peen boost when I win without having to use this kind of thing.
Solo
[14] Master
Wait. People actually use this shit move?
Twiz
Волк Одиночка
Yeah man totally. When I want to make my opponent feel like he's accomplishing something I throw out 1A to let them block it. If they don't block it I just laugh at them. Also you know those times when you input 2A and that shitty xbox dpad just goes...."Nah I think Imma do 1A instead". Yeah you know those times.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
Two words for you. Arcade Stick.
I'll admit, 1A is a joke. At the very least, I can block or jump it 99% of the time, and even JG it on reaction sometimes too (I'm still a scrub with JG'ing low).
When used by someone from halfway across the planet, armed with a 2-bar connection, it's surprisingly deadly. I try to avoid these fights, but sometimes I mash A without looking, and end up with one of these.
The best ones are those that have a microphone that won't shut off, and you can hear the kid's mom shouting in spanish or moonspeak.
Twiz
Волк Одиночка
Two words for you. I'M CHEAP!
Reave
[13] Hero
Or you could just leave and not subject yourself to such shitty connections. I play people around the world and I have solid connections with most. Actually the most laggy people come from my own country lol.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
True that. I typically see these fights through anyway. Something about a twisted sense of "honor". Anyway, it's my fault when it does happen. Sorry if it seems like I'm bitching about it.
Connections are the craziest things. I could play my next door neighbor and have a higher ping with them than someone 100 miles away, all depending on ISP and the routing for the connection.