α Patroklos General Discussion/ Q&A

Slade said:
Only on CH. It is pretty useful though, especially in clutch end of round situations where you use 9K to avoid 2Ks/throws.
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Hmm. Well I've been playing DOA recently but I'll definitely check that out when I head back to SCV soon.
 
Any advice for players who can turtle effectively? I was playing vs. DeathInMyEyes and his voldo totally walled me to death. It seemed like he made all the right guesses. He broke nearly all my throws, backsteped right when I ran up and used 1:A:A:A, and blocked many 236 3B attempts. The only thing that really worked was 2A interrupts and 214 2K/ FC 2K.

I also had a hard time with opponents like Ivy and Astaroth who won't even let you get close enough to do anything, and then when I finally get close enough they backstep out of nearly everything. When I try to use 236 3B to catch backstep, they either step it or block it. Is it just me making a lot of bad choices? Also, what do you guys think of apat's guard pressure? I usually never any guard gauges to red, but everyone else seems to make mine blink red with relative ease.
 
georgenymous said:
Any advice for players who can turtle effectively? I was playing vs. DeathInMyEyes and his voldo totally walled me to death. It seemed like he made all the right guesses. He broke nearly all my throws, backsteped right when I ran up and used 1:A:A:A, and blocked many 236 3B attempts. The only thing that really worked was 2A interrupts and 214 2K/ FC 2K.

I also had a hard time with opponents like Ivy and Astaroth who won't even let you get close enough to do anything, and then when I finally get close enough they backstep out of nearly everything. When I try to use 236 3B to catch backstep, they either step it or block it. Is it just me making a lot of bad choices? Also, what do you guys think of apat's guard pressure? I usually never any guard gauges to red, but everyone else seems to make mine blink red with relative ease.
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Well personally I have to disagree with the fact that you say Alpha gets outranged by a lot of characters. I feel like he has fantastic range, but to answer your question, with Alphas speed, using lots of mind games to catch your opponent off guard is usually never a bad idea. DIME is an old practice partner of mine back in the day, and he is extremely good and difficult to beat. Voldo is a tough character to fight anyway, so don't look too much into that loss. But if people keep backstepping you when you rush up for attacks, you can always try to get them to backstep, and kill it with 236 3B. If you delay it until they step you may catch them. However, doing it too much will get predictable. Often times vs long range and fast characters like Ivy or Nightmare, if you do 236236236... it will allow you to approach them in a tech crouch until you get into 236 3B range for a launcher. It difficult to do effectively without practice, but can be very helpful vs characters with a lot of fast highs.
 
Could you give a list of moves that you believe aPat has that allows him to compete with other characters who can space well (besides twister and 236 3B)? That would really help. I don't really like wavedashing, because I'm scared I might get CH with a mid, but I might try it out when I get the chance. I'm really terrified of Asta's 44A though. Guess I should go practice JG more :P
 
georgenymous said:
Could you give a list of moves that you believe aPat has that allows him to compete with other characters who can space well (besides twister and 236 3B)?
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I would consider Alpha my best character, and I have like an 85% win rate. I'm no pro, but I'll give ya what I got. Moves I use consistently are:
66B/slide kick/66(3)B mixup
22K has suprising range, is fast, and a mid (plus it gives wall splat. Not as much damage as 22AA or 22BA though.)
236 1B/66A+B doesn't give you FA, but is good on guard damage, and can be followed up with a 2A CE if they try to counter. Use them sparingly though. Both can be stepped. If they start to 2A after it to beat yours, jump.
236 1K is a very good low. Fast and hard to read, plus 2K will beat anything if it hits as well (I'm pretty sure.) If they start ducking the 2K, use twister or FC 3B:B.
1A:A:A is such a good move. Fast, a low, and great damage. The only problem is its range. It is great when your opponent is near a wall or an edge with limited mobility. It's hard to react to so fake a mid or something with a cancel to make them flinch, and then using it works more often than you think.
1B:B is the riskiest move in Alphas arsenal, but arguably the most deadly. One of the hardest JFs in the game, it takes a long time to master, but is totally worth it. Any connected 1B:B gives you a free half life combo, however any missed 1B:B leaves you at -17.
214 2K great mid range poke.
bA a high damaging move with massive range, knockdown on hit, and catches step. Only problem is it's punishable. However it has a lot of knock back on block, and is a good combo ender if you can time it right.
FC 3A+B fantastic to use after ducking a geussed high or throw. Follow with 2363B, 2143B:B:BE, 8A+B B, 2143a:B for best damage.
2A has short range but is fast can be followed up with CE. One of the most useful 2As in the game.
44B+K a 12 frame move with good damage and a stun. Perfect for punishing moves that are -12 if you can't get JF twister every time. Plus the BE version leads to great combos.
B+K;62B;44B+K is fairly slow, but can be very tricky when used with mixup and does massive damage. Leaves you at disadvantage though, so not his best move by any means.
Every other move can be used as well, but avoid using 236 1 A, and 2A+B too much if at all, because they are bad, and punishable. Mostly I just use 236 3B for whiff punish and twister for punish.
 
Logan said:
236 1K is a very good low. Fast and hard to read, plus 2K will beat anything if it hits as well (I'm pretty sure.) If they start ducking the 2K, use twister or FC 3B:B.
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At i27 and -16 on block, you had better be very sure your 11K/2361K is going to connect. It is quite slow (easily reactable for a sharp player) and punishable on block. This is best used as a "slow low" fake out. By that I mean, your opponent expects a low, but you do a low so slow that they twitch duck, stand again to block a mid, and then get hit by the slow low. Hard to explain, but sometimes the best way to hit someone with a low is when they're expecting it. If you are anticipating an 8WR high attack, Alpha has a better option (see below).

Also, 11K does not yield frame advantage on hit (non-knockdown lows with positive frames on hit are extremely rare in SCV). 11K is 0 on hit (neutral frames) and the opponent is forced to FC. FC 2K is i14, so an opponent with a fast 2A (many characters have i12 2As) will beat you. You can 2A after 11K on hit and have a good chance of hitting or trading, provided they don't smell it and go for a low crush/tech jump.
Logan said:
1A: A: A is such a good move. Fast, a low, and great damage. The only problem is its range. It is great when your opponent is near a wall or an edge with limited mobility. It's hard to react to so fake a mid or something with a cancel to make them flinch, and then using it works more often than you think.
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I'd just like to specify that 1A is not fast. i23 does not constitute "fast". I'd draw that line somewhere around i17 or quicker, and even that is being generous. However, 1A does have a very subtle animation, which makes it hard to react to. The move might look fast, but i23 is far, far from being in the category of "fast" moves in SCV.
Logan said:
44B+K a 12 frame move with good damage and a stun. Perfect for punishing moves that are -12 if you can't get JF twister every time. Plus the BE version leads to great combos.
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44B+K is i14, not i12.
Logan said:
Every other move can be used as well, but avoid using 236 1 A, and 2A+B too much if at all, because they are bad, and punishable. Mostly I just use 236 3B for whiff punish and twister for punish.
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2361A is actually a very useful move. While it carries similar risks to 11K/2361K, it is only one frame longer to execute, and has significantly longer range, higher damage, and better tech crouch properties. 2361A is actually an ideal tool to CH fish against your opponent's 8WR high attacks. In addition, CH 11A offers you combo opportunities, whereas 11K does not lead to any combo on normal or counter hit. CH 11A can be followed by a JFT (FC 3a:B), or with 2362BA for a wallsplat/RO option.
 
georgenymous said:
Could you give a list of moves that you believe aPat has that allows him to compete with other characters who can space well (besides twister and 236 3B)?
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6AA, 66A, WR A, bA, 8A+B > A, 3K, 4K

But your priority should not be "out spacing" characters, but to get in. Though I wonder if you can turtle with Alpha effectively.
 
Yeah I knew a lot of my info was wrong. I haven't played in over two months and a lot of what I said was from memory and I don't know if there were any patches. Plus I didn't look at the frame data because I'm lazy. Thanks though.
 
Yeah I don't really try to space with alpha, but I do find it hard to get in on characters that can space very well. I haven't used 8 A+B > A too much but I want to see if it helps me. If anybody doesn't mind, can someone tell me the frames of that move? And what do you guys do against people who like to roll? Anything for players who really like to sideroll?
 
georgenymous said:
Yeah I don't really try to space with alpha, but I do find it hard to get in on characters that can space very well. I haven't used 8 A+B > A too much but I want to see if it helps me. If anybody doesn't mind, can someone tell me the frames of that move? And what do you guys do against people who like to roll? Anything for players who really like to sideroll?
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236 3B for days vs rollers.
 
I'm interested to know who else does this. Rather than slide from A to B using the face buttons, I do square (A) and then R1 (A+B) to register the B command for Sakura Twister. It works quite well and I can get JF a fair amount of the time. I'm just wondering if people think I'm stupid for doing it this way.
 
I don't really like using 236 3B for rollers, they just evade it by rolling side to side. I use it if they just decide to lay on the ground, but other than that, I'm not really finding any success with rollers besides FC K. I'm also pretty surprised 8A+B >A is only -3 on block.

I hear a lot of people say that whatever method works for the player is best. I changed my button setup for my PS3 controller so that the X button is A and Circle is B. I find it easier to slide X to Circle rather than Square to Triangle. I can get the first JF Twister most of the time, but I'm still working on the second twister.
 
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