Soul Calibur 6 Discussion

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SoulCalibur does seem to mix up moves quite a bit more than other fighters I've noticed, though I'm certain I have played far fewer fighters than most. However, I've been going between Soul Calibur's III, IV, and V lately, and there are an incredible amount of changes between each game. An large amount of moves are added, removed, moved to a different input, and given different properties in virtually every title.
 
I don't understand how people would praise the removal of moves or those very much unnecessary changes to inputs even for the most basic staple standard moves. How does that improve on gameplay? In SCV, many mix-ups are just gone, sometimes even natural combos have been reduced to single moves, thus can no longer be mixed up. 8-way run rendered rather pointless by making 11_44_77 or 33_66_99 trigger the same moves. No low grabs for Leixia, what the hell?

This approach of cutting down movesets is anything but enhancing the strategical aspect of SC. It used to be refreshing when players could throw in a less common move (often with bad properties) just to confuse the opponent. Making the movesets so bland and boringly predictable this time around, to me is just a plain lazy ass job by PS (just like the story line, lack of modes, roster decisions, thee mimics, colour swap 2Ps, incomplete in-game models with floating armour, etc.).

I'm eagerly awaiting SCII HD, but if SCVI turns out to be another dumb down fest, I'm gonna have to leave SC altogether.
 
I personally don't like games where the characters have hundreds of moves, hope SCVI will add a few, but not too much. To me the moveset look just fine in SCV, and I started playing SC (casually) with SCII
 
I feel like if the franchise is going to survive SCVI needs to make sure not to stiff its casual fan base like it did in SCV. Mind you SCV is a great game and one of the most balanced installments in the franchise but the lack of character backstory, (This is the first SC I'm aware of without character endings.), more cut scenes (less rushed colorless art.), maybe bring back some of the survival modes, time attack, team battle, museum, and other features aimed at solo play available in previous game, and more DLC including items for CAS and downloadable characters.

As far as online is concerned I feel being released on a next gen console I feel like options such as OL spectator slots, sharing custom equipment and CAS characters, streaming directly from console (at least in the case of the PS4), and options like playing in a "training mode like session should be possible. Also I think training mode should be more elaborate. In SCV it's great if you're someone familiar with calibur but for the player new to gameplay, or interested in playing the game competitively it does not explain things like JG, the explanation for the button notations in the movelist, GI, JF timing, and frames.

From the competitive aspect balance balance and more balance.
 
Strategic. Not strategical. Strategic.

As for changing inputs, the only ones that I thought made sense were when they standardized stances to have a B+K input across the cast.
 
Slade said:
Pretty much this. People complain about them removing moves that arguably shouldn't have ever existed in the first place (and would certainly be retarded in SCV), like Talim 33A and Xianghua 6B+K.
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Well, he didn't say 66B+K so I'm not objecting to that.
 
Harry said:
Why do people think that more options equals more strategy?
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Because, well, I don't even know how to explain...see, if you had just A, B, K and G (no A+B, B+K, no throws, no directional inputs, let's say bordering DK) you'd have three options of attacking. The opponent would know that that's all he'll have to deal with, pick up your possibilities rather quickly and adjust to them. Because: one option, one strategy. Adding directional inputs to that (especially 2k or other lows) will have your opponent guessing what your next move will be. And in some cases, he might guess wrong and take damage. Which opens up that thing called mindgame.

While the amount of moves in the current movesets of SCV are arguably still on a much bigger scale than in my stupid example above, the point remains essentially the same. Reduction of options equals reduction of mindgame potential equals reduction of strategies. On the other hand, you can have shitty strategy despite large amounts of options, true.
 
weshookhands said:
Because, well, I don't even know how to explain...see, if you had just A, B, K and G (no A+B, B+K, no throws, no directional inputs, let's say bordering DK) you'd have three options of attacking. The opponent would know that that's all he'll have to deal with, pick up your possibilities rather quickly and adjust to them. Because: one option, one strategy. Adding directional inputs to that (especially 2k or other lows) will have your opponent guessing what your next move will be. And in some cases, he might guess wrong and take damage. Which opens up that thing called mindgame.

While the amount of moves in the current movesets of SCV are arguably still on a much bigger scale than in my stupid example above, the point remains essentially the same. Reduction of options equals reduction of mindgame potential equals reduction of strategies. On the other hand, you can have shitty strategy despite large amounts of options, true.
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weshookhands said:
That's an easy thing to say as long as you don't explain yourself and prefer insulting people to making a point.
Maybe you'd like to explain why it's "plain wrong"?
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Out of the entire movelist in any soulcalibur game, there are going to be moves that are considered the best because they cover the most options effectively (Xianghua is a good example). The only point of these not as good moves is to gimmick people out that have never seen it before. For example, 10 hit combos in Tekken are purely for people who don't know the hit levels that are easily countered by parries, low crushes, and high crushes. Not knowing this is an automatic loss in the majority of cases and is NOT a mind game because nobody is thinking. The player that hasn't memorized these useless moves and are being exploited on their match up ignorance. This doesn't define a smarter player, unless memorization = smart thinking (lol if you think that way). That is why when you narrow down the movelist, you get people to make smarter reads because it is WAY easier to learn a command list's good/hard to counter moves that require you to guess and the bad moves that have one simple shut down.
 
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Party Wolf said:
This doesn't define a smarter player, unless memorization = smart thinking (lol if you think that way). That is why when you narrow down the movelist, you get people to make smarter reads because it is WAY easier to learn a command list's good/hard to counter moves that require you to guess and the bad moves that have one simple shut down.
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People appear to make smarter reads because there is less reading to be done. They're merely more convenient reads. It's easier to guess a coin toss than a d20 dice roll. What's worse is that if you're not very good at reading and out guessing the other guy each passing Calibur reduces the options you have to still win and be bad at guessing coin flips.

Mere memorization does not automatically equal smart play of course. The inverse though is that guessing well on simple throw/mid does not automatically make you a genius.

JG further compounds this problem but that's for another post.
 
weshookhands said:
Because, well, I don't even know how to explain...see, if you had just A, B, K and G (no A+B, B+K, no throws, no directional inputs, let's say bordering DK) you'd have three options of attacking. The opponent would know that that's all he'll have to deal with, pick up your possibilities rather quickly and adjust to them.
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Yep. VF is a game of no options or thought. No strategy.
 
Party Wolf said:
Can you elaborate?
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Well, if educated play does not automatically equal a smart player then uneducated play (winging it if you will) should be the inverse and also not genius, even if it works. Perhaps I misunderstand the point you were making (totally possible cuz I'm dense).

I guess a more direct thought might be, if you can read the other player really well in certain 50/50 situations but don't know how to work around their shit due to ignorance you don't deserve to win and cannot claim to be better or smarter. It's like Morrigan/Doom in Marvel, don't know how to get through the fireballs? Sucks for you, go home and study because all the reads in the world ain't gonna mean shit till you know the match up properly.

Excellent fighting game play requires both generally speaking and any fighter that doesn't............. well I'd say it's a fairly shitty fighter.
 
Real_Bojack said:
Well, if educated play does not automatically equal a smart player then uneducated play (winging it if you will) should be the inverse and also not genius, even if it works. Perhaps I misunderstand the point you were making (totally possible cuz I'm dense).

I guess a more direct thought might be, if you can read the other player really well in certain 50/50 situations but don't know how to work around their shit due to ignorance you don't deserve to win and cannot claim to be better or smarter. It's like Morrigan/Doom in Marvel, don't know how to get through the fireballs? Sucks for you, go home and study because all the reads in the world ain't gonna mean shit till you know the match up properly.

Excellent fighting game play requires both generally speaking and any fighter that doesn't............. well I'd say it's a fairly shitty fighter.
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I agree match ups are important to know in order to get wins. However, when both players understand the situations characters put you in and how to deal with it, it turns into a game of educated 50/50.

This is why I support the reduced command list because it makes the learning curve on character match ups easier for players, leading to high level (or sometimes yolo in SCV :P) thought processes based on your fighting game fundamentals and character vs your opponent's fundamentals/character.
 
Party Wolf said:
I agree match ups are important to know in order to get wins. However, when both players understand the situations characters put you in and how to deal with it, it turns into a game of educated 50/50.

This is why I support the reduced command list because it makes the learning curve on character match ups easier for players, leading to high level (or sometimes yolo in SCV :P) thought processes based on your fighting game fundamentals and character vs your opponent's fundamentals/character.
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I just wish I was better at guessing 50/50 :( for me it's like a 75/25 in the other guys favor.
 
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