Soul Calibur 6 Discussion

[Party Wolf]

My thoughts on a character roster. There are only a few factors that matter to me.

1. Relevancy - Do they play a part in the Soulcalibur lore? Do they fit the atmosphere (unlike Star Wars)? Do people even like them (iconic)?

2. Gameplay - Are these characters ruining the integrity of the game?

3. Design - Are they unique?

4. Size - Don't want to overwhelm users and the creators.

I think most of the *new* characters of SCV fail to meet these standards which is why they aren't cared about. Maxi and Yun at least had some character development when they replaced Hwang and Li Long. They are different enough to where they can be accepted. The SCV characters are different too, but some of them are just flat out annoying. Their older versions were more serious and fit the mold of what you would expect someone to act in a life vs death scenario.

The problem with some of the older characters is that they were so serious that they were boring or they had annoying personalities like some of the SCV characters.

Boring Characters to me:
Sophitia
Amy
Taki
Berserker/Assassin
Charade
Raphael (Vampire version)
Viola
Hilde
Rock

However, I could see Kilik, Lizardman, Setsuka, and Hwang being added to someone's boring category. I feel like Taki/Sophitia are seen as cool/badass to players in the same light as I do Kilik, so I wouldn't mind their return. They are also very iconic.

Goofy characters that aren't uniquely weird like Yoshi and Voldo:
Yun
Dampierre
Olcadan
Xiba

Characters that have aggressively annoying quotes:
Xianghua/Leixia
Pyrrha
Patroklos
Talim
Natsu (Kind of)

I suppose my ideal roster based on existing characters would look something like this...

Aeon
*Algol*
Astaroth
Cassandra
Cervantes
*Elysium* (Non-mimic version)
Hwang
Ivy
Kilik
Maxi (more well-known than Li Long)
Mitsurugi
Nightmare
Raphael (SC2 inspired)
Mina
Setsuka
Siegfried
Sophitia
Taki
Tira
Voldo
Xianghua (Not important to me but she is too iconic and Kilik's woman)
Yoshimitsu
Zasalamel (with an Abyss skin!)
*ZWEI*

* = I wouldn't miss if they were gone forever

 

[linkorz]

*Algol*
...
* = I wouldn't miss if they were gone forever

dont you play algol or something

 

[Party Wolf]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean he fits the series in the long term. His design is based on what you would expect a boss character to look like. Not what a standard Soulcalibur character would look like. That'd be like wanting night terror to be playable. Algol takes you out of the Soulcalibur mold gameplay-wise which is bad. Same with ZWEI/Viola. That's why I said...

2. Gameplay - Are these characters ruining the integrity of the game?

This is also why I dislike infinite stages.

 

[linkorz]

We can certainly agree infinite stages are harmful to the series.

I don't think it's fair enough to say that magical-esque characters can't be consistent with integral SC gameplay yet. So far, yes, all the "magical" characters have either been god awful or absurdly good. But I would personally wait to see if SC6 is a thing, and see if they can succeed in that game to render these characters more consistent with the rest of the gameplay.

 

[Party Wolf]

Or you could pay attention to the reception of the failed attempts from the fan base. They don't fit in.

 

[Frayhua]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean he fits the series in the long term. His design is based on what you would expect a boss character to look like. Not what a standard Soulcalibur character would look like. That'd be like wanting night terror to be playable. Algol takes you out of the Soulcalibur mold gameplay-wise which is bad. Same with ZWEI/Viola. That's why I said...

Algol, Z.W.E.I, & Viola moves best moves are useless against Leixia. It it was X, the result will always be the same.

 

[Party Wolf]

Okay

 

[Frayhua]

Okay

It's fact.

 

[subsmoke]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean he fits the series in the long term. His design is based on what you would expect a boss character to look like. Not what a standard Soulcalibur character would look like. That'd be like wanting night terror to be playable. Algol takes you out of the Soulcalibur mold gameplay-wise which is bad. Same with ZWEI/Viola. That's why I said...



This is also why I dislike infinite stages.

Viola doesn't really fit in with the series but I'm ok with that. We shouldn't get too crazy about what fits and what doesn't because every game needs to evolve over time to avoid getting stale. How many realistic hand-to-hand weapons are left that aren't similar to anything we've already seen? I don't want everyone running around with energy weapons or whatever but a few "out there" characters like Viola won't ruin the series.

 

[Party Wolf]

Mace, bladed fans, sickle, and whatever that thing Revenant uses are all unused by main characters just to name of a few. Evolving shouldn't compromise a series on a fundamental level. That's how they die off.

 

[subsmoke]

One of Rock's weapons is a mace and Zas uses a sickle. Anyway there are still unique weapons that haven't been used but they're gonna run out eventually is my point.

Oh and Revenant in SC3 used wave swords. I wouldn't mind seeing those come back as a legit fighting style. Bladed fans would be cool too if they can avoid ripping off Kitana.

 

[Party Wolf]

I was thinking a normal sized Mace over a giant one. Sickle would probably look lame since Zas has the Scythe like you said. I was just trying to list some weapons.

I don't want the misconception that I am anti-magic. I have a problem with ZWEI/Viola/Algol because of how they work in the game. I'd be okay with like an elemental sword that could be set on fire or cause a really easy to avoid lightning bolt like Abelia. The problem occurs when it starts looking like a 2D fighting game character got inserted into the game and now you have to deal with that instead of more characters that are inspired by classic SC characters. They started getting these weird ideas as of SCIV (arguably SC3III), but I think at the time they just thought that it would just be for this one boss in the game that won't return. Daishi had a fetish for Street Fighter 3rd strike, so I think that is how these character designs slipped into SCV.

 

[Nyte]

The roster of returning fighters will likely include these characters:

Siegfried
Mitsurugi
Taki
Yoshimitsu
Setsuka
Talim
Yun-Seong
Seong Mi-Na
Xianghua
Kilik
Maxi
Sophitia
Cassandra
Hilde
Raphael
Amy
Nightmare
Tira
Zasalamel
Astaroth
Cervantes
Voldo
Ivy

I'd say based on a combination of the poll and what Hoshino prefers, the above characters have most likely guaranteed their place in SCVI.

 

[SomeRandomHuman]

And i'm sitting there, loving integration of 2D mechanics into 3D fighting games.
I think it was done quite well, and they probably will fix problems of OP/UP magical characters in upcoming game.
Having few nonstandard chars does not hurt, especially considering that SC lore is all around magic.IMHO as long as it's not half of the roster it's ok'.

 

[darkwings13]

Talim has been low tier for a long time but besides her most of the originals were considered high tier. Especially Xianghua.

Talim was mid tier in SCII. Also, Raph became low tier as the series went on and Amy was very high tier and stronger than him in SCIV. True that Xianghua was much stronger than Leixia. Same for Kilik who's stronger than Xiba, but he is a weird mix of Kilik and Mina.

 

[Ave]

The problem occurs when it starts looking like a 2D fighting game character got inserted into the game and now you have to deal with that instead of more characters that are inspired by classic SC characters.

If all the characters are based on 'classic' SC characters then it gets boring - hence why people dislike Pyrrha, Patroklos, Leixia, Xiba, etc, so much. I don't get it; people complain so much about mimics, and how the new characters are 'rip offs' of old SC characters, yet when more unique characters are created, they get hate for not conforming to 'classic' formula?

 

[Party Wolf]

Those characters you listed were watered down replacements of old characters. Every character that has been made was inspired by older characters except Zwei/Viola/Algol/Guests/Bosses. They all look like they could be inserted into SC1 and not stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Frayhua]

If all the characters are based on 'classic' SC characters then it gets boring - hence why people dislike Pyrrha, Patroklos, Leixia, Xiba, etc, so much. I don't get it; people complain so much about mimics, and how the new characters are 'rip offs' of old SC characters, yet when more unique characters are created, they get hate for not conforming to 'classic' formula?

I agree with you on everything, except for the real reason Pat is disliked. Pat is disliked because Daishi wanted to make him super cool in every way possible. He has the best meter gain, he's the best character in SCV with the A+B:A+B glitch because it makes A+B hit twice and comboing midscreen doing a nearly half life meterless combo, A+B has a hold input for an aGI, his pre-patch whiffing issues fixed(not Siegfried's), & to top it all of have an awful story mode just to replace Setsuka and damage her style. Don't get me wrong I like JF Twister, but he has no umbrella, A+B is terrible because of no Just Impact in SCV, & 2A[BE] is an awful shoulder to replace JF Umbrella.

I hope some Setsuka pet-peeves I have get fixed like normal aGB shouldn't be a super launcher. The JF version aB should be the only version that is the super launcher as well as the opponent not Air Controlling after launcher combos. Another one is the 1A series, it should be just frame only rather than 1AA for the awful version that doesn't launch. Disadvantage on hit if the just frame can't be done like 1B:B. 1B:B x2 midscreen shouldn't have increased damage when done twice. Last one is after leveling up A+B. For example, after A+B levels 1-3 you can hold 6 to do A+B levels 1-3 attacks and so on. That would make A+B much stronger than it's suppose to. My solution is that A+B when maxed out resets to the starter level & you shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose what A+B level attack you want.

 

[Harry]

Personally I think it's stupid to limit the mechanics of a character's gameplay design based on lore of the game because then your limiting what you can do from a gameplay perspective. Besides, from a marketing standpoint it's more beneficial because characters with unique designs gameplay-wise attract players from other games who otherwise wouldn't have had any interest in Soul Calibur. Classically designed characters do nothing but attract people who are already fans of the series. Algol and Viola attracted 2D players because of their mechanics, just like Akuma is attracting a lot of 2D players to Tekken 7. He's a character that casual SF fans know, and for people who play competitively, he's someone who eases the process of getting into the game because he's pretty much plays the same as in SF.

 

[Ave]

All I'm saying is, is that old characters are great because they're already iconic, so yes they should be in the new game, but they are becoming so irrelevant to the story that new characters need to be integrated. I think new characters are good - I love all the new characters introduced in SCV, I just wish their backstories were fleshed out more and they were less like carbon copies of their predecessors. These 'problems' with the newer characters are soooo easily fixable that I think it would be stupid for devs to not give em a chance.


On another note, with guest characters, I really want characters relevant to the era that we play in. Star Wars can fuck off for all I care. The relevance of these guest characters could then mean they can be integrated into the story just as strongly as the main characters are, sort of like how the Virtua Fighter guests were in DOA5. I think that would really make the story exciting.