Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

DanteSC3 said:
Dream DLC that would never happen.
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For me is
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Rusted Blade said:
I find that ad sophomoric. Aesthetically, Ivy is a plenty hardened, plenty strong female character with a dominating (pun unavoidable) fighting style. That's exactly why it's frustrating that whenever it's time to market the new game, they feel the need to double down on this kind of juvenille objectification of the female body, with Ivy the preferred fixation. I would say its an insult to the intelligence, maturity, and sense of self respect of every male fan of the franchise...except for the fact that they seem awfully convinced that it still works. So either I give the average male fan too much credit, or the mindset of Namco's marketing team is still locked in the early 90s. Of course, frankly, some of this can probably be attributed to the company being based in Japan, where curving your video game's marketing toward otaku sensibilities is still arguably sound business practice. In any event, of all of the legacy outfits I'd like to see return for DLC, I genuinely would have to go with Ivy's SCII 2P/Napoleonic wars inspired outfit. If only they had embraced maturing her design more consistently in that direction.



Personally, the missing element for me is her weapon: that massive, studded jō/cudgel was really the element that pulled that visual design together. I agree that she was the stand out of those bonus character skins, in any event.
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Whoa, what's wrong with sex appeal?
 
I have to echo that sentiment. At the same time, though, oddly enough, I actually agree that the Napoleonic outfit was Ivy's best.
 
Nyte said:
Whoa, what's wrong with sex appeal?
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Nothing, in principle. But there's a difference between wanting to populate your game with attractive characters and outright juvenile fanservice, and this is about fifty miles into the "Oh, grow up already" side of things.
 
Rusted Blade said:
Nothing, in principle. But there's a difference between wanting to populate your game with attractive characters and outright juvenile fanservice, and this is about fifty miles into the "Oh, grow up already" side of things.
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Okubo himself stated that they designed the characters to appeal to aesthetic. Basically what they thought was cool. Which honestly says a lot in this era we’re in full of overt political correctness and pandering to the vocal minority. I commend the companies that don’t give a crap about it, wish there were more.
 
Ah yep. Gotta combat that PC nonsense. Them damn essjaydubyoos wanting female characters to wear clothes. Disgusting. Gotta get back to the days when it was okay for game devs to just rub their dicks all over their projects lmao
 
Ugh, not this bullshit. There's plenty of games that appease that crowd, and I'm tired of all the fighting and whining. Also, "it was okay"? When was it not okay? I mean, CD Projekt RED doesn't care and they're the top dogs of the industry. There's value in having sexy women that aren't ugly.
 
I'm annoyed that this is even a debate. Both sides are annoying. There's literally no reason a game can't have both. Yet so many games seem to be one or the other.
 
I feel like there's a spectrum and a bar where there should be limitations on certain things. SoulCalibur IV is by far the worst offender of being over the line, but SoulCalibur VI isn't all that far behind it, really. SoulCalibur V was an attempt to get back to somewhat classy, but SoulCalibur I-III were definitely far more tasteful by and large, while still having some sex appeal, it still wasn't over the top and unnecessary, like it can be argued we are now.

In the worst case scenario, if you don't like it, at least there's customization for the main cast, and you can "fix" it, but that just goes back to needing the CaS DLC ASAP, so we'll have a wide assortment of options, instead of the barebones selection we have right now.
 
Look what I just started...

Like I said, appeal to aesthetic. That’s what matters.
 
Nyte said:
Ugh, not this bullshit. There's plenty of games that appease that crowd, and I'm tired of all the fighting and whining. Also, "it was okay"? When was it not okay? I mean, CD Projekt RED doesn't care and they're the top dogs of the industry. There's value in having sexy women that aren't ugly.
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Because I totally said sexy is bad and ugly is good, right? And everyone knows there's no middleground between the two.

For the record: I have no problem with sexy characters. They can be fun. I just don't think it's necessary for overt sexuality to be present in just about every female character in a game. Variety's a great thing to have.

Also I was mostly poking fun because of the PC comment tbh
 
Nyte said:
Okubo himself stated that they designed the characters to appeal to aesthetic. Basically what they thought was cool. Which honestly says a lot in this era we’re in full of overt political correctness and pandering to the vocal minority. I commend the companies that don’t give a crap about it, wish there were more.
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Oh don't go crying "PC oppression" on me. There's plenty to be said about objectification and how non-subtly these things are handled in the industry, especially in anime/otoku-influenced products coming out of Japan, if you're really determined to take the conversation in that direction. But one doesn't even remotely need to frame the issue in such terms to find that the Soul Calibur interpretation of "sex appeal" frequently dips into the immature. You don't find their fixations on T&A childish? Well, fine, you're welcome to your interpretation, but I (meaning me, a person separate and distinct from you with their own sense of taste) find it painfully, embarrassingly adolescent. Sex-appeal ≠ a need for ads zoomed in on breasts--give...me...a break! And if I'm to be perfectly blunt, I think you need to get real about which side of that equation they are inclined to "pander" to (for crying out loud, Ivy's breasts have increased by a cup size for five games straight, while the size of the garments covering those breasts has decreased to a little string that looks like it's about to snap...).

Look, obviously this isn't such an issue for me as to drive me away from the series, since I routinely describe myself as one of the franchise's all-time hyper fans. But that's mostly about gameplay. There are many things about the style of the game (from it's storytelling to many aspects of its visual design) that have just never matured much (or indeed, have often devolved to become even more silly and prurient). And the salacious manner in how they market each new entry by fixating on Ivy's bust....it's just childish, my friend. I don't know how many other ways I can say it. It's just plain silly and infantile to my eye. And its not in the least about being squeamish about sexual overtones, or being "politically correct". I have no problem with seeing some skin, or having strong sexual themes in my entertainment media where they feel appropriate and well-earned--that is, where it is natural and well-directed and well-embedded in the overall work. But that's not what fanservice is about--not by miles. Sexual fan service is about straight-up pandering to the most puerile instincts of either teenage boys or grown-ass men who have not matured much in their idea about what is truly attractive and what is an appropriate context for oggling at the female form. "Hehehe, here's a shot of Ivy's titties, hehehehehe....hahahaha! Titties, look at them big ol' titties. Oh gawd, look how big they are! TITTIES!"

And reasonable people can disagree about where the line between tasteful sexuality and fanservice lays. But suffice it to say, I think Soul Calibur's advertising campaigns are well on the eye-rolling side of that divide. But for the record, I was by no means laying into Okubo's team in particular. They are just following a formula that was established well beyond when 98% of the development staff even worked for Namco. There's nothing particularly immature about this entry in my view. We're talking about much broader trends here.
 
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I am not usually the social justice warrior type but I really like what they are doing with Mortal Kombat women. Giving some actual designs that don't look ridiculous and oversexualized. I know soul calibur doesn't have too much of an issue with costumes as their characters look great to me, but some of the women could be toned down some. I have to say, Ivy with strings looks tacky, but Ivy in soul Calibur v 1p was perfect.
 
Not going to defend advertising that explicitly, but still. Soulcalibur can't just make all the women ugly and put them in sweaters like Mortal Kombat did. A core part of any business is knowing your audience, and Project Soul knows what theirs is. Before you go "But SCV!", that was Daishi's decision and his alone -- he's no longer on the team. The director of the game was a designer for SCIV's costumes, and Okubo approves by saying it's because they're cool.

Remember this from LoS?

I5TtPZH.png


They know about it, and use it for good fun. That's what matters: Fun.
 
Me: "So, Mr. Okubo, why did Hwang use a crop top in SOULCALIBUR I and VI?"
Okubo: “Hwang’s skin is tanned, so his physique stand out more when he’s on stage."
Me: "I like that." :sc1ivy1:
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Nyte said:
A core part of any business is knowing your audience, and Project Soul knows what theirs is.
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Yeah, I agree with that. Clearly they wouldn't gear the marketing of their product in this direction unless they were confident it served a practical purpose with their consumers. The thing is, marketing teams aren't immune to confirmation bias, no matter how much market research they are working from. And I wonder if they aren't underestimating how much their customers have aged (and become more diverse). SC is arguably the most complex of all 3D fighters, with deep and addictive mechanics. I believe that's why most of us who have been playing on the order of decades have stuck with it. Gamers are older on average now than at any other time in the history of the industry and developers don't always need to leverage cheap marketing ploys to maintain sales. We care about much more than fanservice these days.

Of course, as I said when this topic first arose, a lot of this can be pinned on the fact that this game comes out of Japan, where otaku culture continues to exert a great deal of influence and sometimes stunts the maturations of pop culture franchises. But even in Japan, things are changing, and studios that can't adjust to be at least a little more mature and thoughtful in how they develop their products and advertise them run the risk of being left behind.


Nyte said:
I5TtPZH.png


They know about it, and use it for good fun. That's what matters: Fun.
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Yeah, I almost mentioned that myself, actually. The thing is, it's hard to know how much that is them poking fun at themselves and how much it is an exercise in trying to create an in-world justification of the skimpy outfit (in which case it is rather weakasauce rationalization). I guess we can give them the benefit of the doubt, given the "I've never really thought deeply on why" part. Still, give me her SCII 2P outfit any day (hell, even her third outfit in that game, also quite sexualized, is still a step in the right direction).
 
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What are you even talking about? "Left behind"? You realize how many franchises went downward after they tried to show how "mature" they were, alienating their fans?

Also, Japan doesn't care about western censorship culture. That, and they're appealing to a wider audience than just their "older fans". The SC fanbase in general likes the sexiness, and if they took it away, they would leave in droves. The DOA guys even said as much about their series, which is why it's not "toned down", as much as it is tucked away but still present.
 
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