4A+B~A+B glitch

Ok I've got it. Forgive this diagram, but its the best way I can think of explaining it. Think of it as a timeline:

4A+B hits grounded opponent - window where inputing A+B does nothing - extremely short window where inputting A+B launches them with no force use or animation - Long window where A+B throws them up in the air with force use and animation - extremely short window where A+B does not throw them in the air but vader goes through th animation and uses force - window where inputting A+B does nothing - Opponent/vader recover.

This sort of agrees with oofs theory about how those too glitches work.

The visual cues are obviously going to be tv-lag specific but for me the throw-without-animation(TWA) happens very near when the red burst from 4A+B dissapears just about as vader turns his hand upward while the animation-without-throw(AWT) happens as just as vaders forearm points straight up.

I'm still inconsistant with it, but as of typing this I've produced TWA about 8 times. You have enough time from opponent getting launched to hit them with pretty much anything you want, notably 44A+K seems good cause you can 44A+K 4A+B to pick them up again after they roll far away, giving you a long range RO. Otherwise 11B seems good for a big damage hit.

/edit/ TWA allows you to jump backwards twice before starting 4A+B6A+B for back RO instead of the one time allowed by 4A+BA+B. The same for sidestep.
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OOFMATIC said:
Very nice find Eyce_Theon!

Some observations after testing it out:

It seems like 4A+B~3_9A+B uses slightly less force when you send them up then if you do 4A+B~A+B.

If you stab them without it going into the attack throw, the hit effect is different with 3_9A+B (it will ringout), and it's slightly less damage (12 instead of 15).
Click to expand...

Although its gimmicky after the ground slide this other version causes 4A+B will pick them up if they lie flat or tech msot directions, giving you a very long range forward RO. Vader was able to tech only to his right to escape for example.
 
more or less these things arent very good to use in heavy play or tourney scene..if it were to be done you will be screwing yourself for trying it to only not succeed ..the only ones really doing anything in this area is 4A+B~9A+B version..which gets him the ring out stab but while opp. is still aired and can score a fairly easy ring out within range...and the samew version but landing against teh wall giving a free wall combo afterwards; thats given if you are close enough.
 
Attempting to demonstrate the 4A+BA+B TWA I accidently found you can 4A+B4A+B in the same way. It pulls opponent behind you and gives you an absurb number of frames to hit them with whatever you want from neutral standing (although as per 4A+B4A+B they have no high hitbox during their recovery).

Also the more I deal with these TWA glitches the more I think they are 2P side specific because while I can always find the correct timing in a reasonable amount of time in practice mode as 2P, I've never been able to do it on 1P side.
 
I was wondering why I didn't find this glitch before, because I tested my TWA theory numerous times and could never do it. So I think that it's because I always tested it with 1P. =\

Now that I try it out I see that it is a very useful glitch. The timing isn't as bad as I thought it would be. With enough practice I can see one doing this very consistently. Nice find, Suirad. :)
 
Suirad:

are you explaining about the amount of frames Vader has post 4A+B~4A+B allowing him to combo?....or something completely different all together?.. i am wondering what is it exactly your talking about, coz i would def like to know, and if its really worth using...like it could be useful, but how usful i am wonderin'..

and @LeBello...uh, is that you OOF???
 
Throw-without-animation, or TWA as I'm abbreviating it, was refering to the 4A+BA+B glitch that tossed people up in the air as 4A+BA+B normally did, but without using force or having vader go through the animation of shining red and raising his fist.

What I was talking about in my previous post was that apparently you can do this with 4A+4A+B too and the timing is about the same for the input. 4A+B4A+B gives you at least 26(I dont know the exact number) frames in which the opponent cannot block(but has no high hitbox) when it picks them up and puts them behind you. When you TWA 4A+B4A+B you get more on the order of 60-70, but you have to watch out because you can move around already while they are being dragged behind you through the air and if you try to attack too early you're way off axis.

As examples of about how much time you have to hit them when this is done properly, you can sidestep to realign then hit 236A+B which is pretty slow. It also seemed like if you side stepped to realign then did 1A+B quickly they could just barely escape it and even then only to one side.
 
Ok for completeness I tried to TWA with 4A+B6A+B, 4A+B3_9A+B and 4A+B1_7A+B. Because Vader doesn't move during a TWA 4A+B3_9A+B and 4A+B1_7A+B acts like 4A+BA+B TWA as one might expect. 4A+B6A+B TWA acts exactly like 4A+B(same frames and everything) except the sound effects are as if 4A+B6A+B had started. So those three TWAs arent really worth mentioning.

Also it seems like if you TWA(both 4A+BA+B and 4A+B4A+B) a face-down opponent you recover slower with respect to when they get thrown in the air, my guess is by the difference 4A+B recovers on face-up vs face-down, but dont have a method to test.
 
hmm.. i wish i could test all this out but my ps3 YLOD'd me a few weeks back...eh , sorry cant help too much in that testing department Suirad .. so just waiting on a new slim in about a week or so, but this does sound promising enough though.
 
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