720p vs 420i

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ATL_R3DD

ATL_R3DD

[08] Mercenary
Ok, some of you know that I went to SwordLord's place to play SC. However, instead of playing SC on 720p, we were playing it on a reg tv (420i)

I was having a lot of trouble with my timing of my JFs, repels, etc and it was really throwing my game off. Now I've asked a couple of people about it, and if I should be playing the game at 420i.

LostinTime told me that the game is meant to be played on 720p, and that when you play it on 420i that's were the lag comes in.

So at this point I'm trying to figure out how should I be playing this game? Because I don't wanna show up to a tourney and get my ass kicked due to something as petty as this.
 
I'm pretty sure 720p is not needed for flawless play at all. I can preform all my combos and JFs if I play on my SD television. I see no difference and certainly don't notice any lag on inputs.
 
You mean 480i? SD tv's have no lag, unless there is a problem with the line running it or the display itself (like being run through a AV switch or converter box, that can delay a signal).

Without being there, it'd almost be impossible to judge what is wrong with the display though, too many variables... But just remember 480i vs 720p is not the problem, it's the display unit and the path of the signal that cause problems.

cha cha
 
Yeah my bad ATL, I didn't explain what I was saying fully...probably cuz we were in the middle of a bunch of games. Cha Cha is right that SDTVs don't have any lag, those play 480i at all times anyways. It's when you try to play SC4 in 480i on an 1080i/720p HDTV or 1080p HDTV that causes lag, because the TV has to scale the image from it's native resolution of 1080p or 1080i down to 480i. Some HDTVs take longer than others to do this down scaling and that's where the varying degrees of lag come in between the different brands of TVs.
 
You'd actually have to run some tests and see what works best for you. Last gathering I had here, I had a PS3 and a 360 hooked up to IDENTICAL TVS with identical display settings, and both systems were outputting on 720p. People were saying that there was slightly more lag on the PS3 version. To me, I found that *really* strange and suspicious, but I experienced it too. Unfortunately I didn't have time to run any tests because the 360 wasn't mine.

Input lag should be dependent on the TV itself. But based on what I said above, there might be something going on elsewhere.
 
depends on your TV man, some brands have a small amount of signal lag for any HD res as it has to convert the signal from it's native settings. Don't bother telling me your brand though, I ain't gonna look it up ^^; just do some tech forums searches and it will provide your answers.

cha cha
 
Haeven said:
So, if my xbox360 is set for 720p wide screen format, there should no lag on a 720p tv?
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It would also be prudent to check if your set has a game mode, as some TVs add image processing to make your video look "pretty."
 
phillips 42" 1080i flatscreen...feature called 'autopicture' which adjusts the brightness automatically as the game/movie/whatever plays...have to turn it off to end lag. sux cause it makes it hard to see in that shitbag lava stage.
 
So I'm curious now, is there a way to play on a 1080 or 720 tv with no lag? I was considering getting one but it'll suck if it's gonna mess with my SC play.
 
that's my question too.

I looked up Sony Bravia 32" discussions and ppl say it has virtually no input lag XD. Which is good! But just in case if I notice any, I can turn off noise reduction (noise reduction increases sharpness).. I don't there's any other setting on my tv that can help. What are the different settings I should look for generally in order to lower input lag?
 
Nearly all HDTVs lag, there are only a handful that are close to lag free. I heard that last generation Sharp Aquos 42" was almost lag free, but that might have been debunked too.
 
My 1080i CRT is lag free :) When I bring my game over to my cousins (42" Sony LCD) I can do any JF's at all, and even simple combos are screwed up. CRT>LCD by far.
 
CRTs generally wont lag because there is no graphic processing engine required to make the image look "better". However, if you are trying to play a 480i game (last gen) on a 1080p television, there will be a video upscaling processing engine invoked... that will cause lag, EVEN ON CRT TELEVISIONS! Upscaling will always cause lag if your television is handling it. If you want to upscale without lag, you're going to have to buy an extremely expensive external upscaler box.

All LCD/Plasma/DLP/LCoS televisions lag because of the graphics processing engine. Flat panel televisions like these do not naturally look nice; so these extra processes are invoked to enhance quality, color clarity and sharpness. Many televisions have a "game mode" that turn many of these extra processes off, but there so far has been no flat panel that turns it all off. LCoS/DLP type televisions are known to have the lowest lag (Sony has shut down their LCoS line, but DLP is still active); while Plasma is known to have the most lag.

The lag on LCDs themselves are variable based on the manufacturer's engine. The lowest I've heard about on an LCD is about 5ms on a very rare Samsung model MONITOR (not a television). There are also rumors about a 0ms lag LCD MONITOR that has just been released, but I forgot what it was called. Very few LCD TELEVISIONS have such low lag because the television manufacturers make their TVs for image quality and movie watchers, not for performance quality and gamers.
 
DmanXIIX said:
So I'm curious now, is there a way to play on a 1080 or 720 tv with no lag? I was considering getting one but it'll suck if it's gonna mess with my SC play.
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Lag's more of an issue with older sets. Anything that does 8ms or lower should not be giving you noticeable lag unless you're having it do something really weird. (Running 480i through the PS3's HDMI tends to lag things up for example.)
 
Marginal said:
Lag's more of an issue with older sets. Anything that does 8ms or lower should not be giving you noticeable lag unless you're having it do something really weird. (Running 480i through the PS3's HDMI tends to lag things up for example.)
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Thats because by DEFAULT, the PS3 doesn't do any upscaling. The PS3 has many extra processes it can run on your games/movies to make them look better; but by default they are all off. (when you see those 360 vs PS3 comparison vids, they dont turn them on either; so they don't run at the PS3's optimal settings) The 360 however, does have all the extra processes on by default; where it is out of the box, is the best its ever going to get... the 360 also upscales by defualt; so it takes that need away from the television and does it without lag.

If you want to turn the upscaling on by default on the PS3, you simply need to turn off all the video settings for games except the ones you want to use. So if you want the PS3 to upscale to 1080p (instead of your TV doing the upscaling), turn off all the video settings except 1080p.
 
Even then, as I understand it, the PS3 doesn't upscale at all except by by way of software. (Not every game could do 1080P at first. Dunno if the firmware's updated that yet or not.) If you don't tweak the settings, it'll just play the game in whatever res the developer decided to set the optimum res at.
 
Jaxel said:
However, if you are trying to play a 480i game (last gen) on a 1080p television, there will be a video upscaling processing engine invoked... that will cause lag, EVEN ON CRT TELEVISIONS! Upscaling will always cause lag if your television is handling it.
Click to expand...

Bah. no wonder my gamecube games were lagging so much on the flat panel. I had to go back to my projection tv.
 
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