Advanced/Situational Raphael Tech

[Jimbonator]

This is my rough translation of http://translate.google.com/transla...dbox=0&usg=ALkJrhi8anw9QUOLQJ5Uty09wzYYXzrCeQ . Forgive this massive link but I am a bit too lazy after discovering this stuff. There is a plethora of data and tech on this website!

236B Analysis
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As you should know, 236B is an i20 mid that is -12 on block and forces the opponent in crouch. These circumstances on block allow a respectable portion of the cast to get a FC A punish for their troubles. However, there are instances where these punishers can be foiled based on what range they block the attack at.

As shown here, Mitsu's FC A punishes. It is worthy to note that despite the punish and +8, you are just out of throw range, and Mitsu has one of the largest throw ranges in the cast. So this -8 scenario for you does not pose a huge immediate threat in terms of damaging 50/50s. The range in which this is blocked is mid/mid-longish.

However! If 236B is blocked at kissing range, an axis shift can occur. This axis shift in tandem with buffering 66B avoids the FC A entirely and supplies a whiff punish as seen here.

What is happening is that when blocked at very close range, the end animation of Raph involves him standing to the opponents left side, so his hurtbox is harder to catch. This axis shift can also net you a side needle whiff punish if you choose to do so.

Now a point the guide makes is to not make use of this tech against characters who lack an i12 FC A and/or characters who do not have a FC A with enough range to even punish. The characters who cannot punish 236B are Nightmare, Siegfried, Astaroth, Ezio, Xiba, Cervantes and others. I have not tested all this myself so this is what the guide has told me. So as a result, defense tactics such as GI and JG are much more recommended after this block scenario vs these characters.

 

[Jimbonator]

Killing Movement With Verticals
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Many people tote Raphael at being helpless against controlling movement, not quite. If you are very knowledgeable on frames you can abuse your quick verticals to kill movement if the opponent attempts to move at disadvantage.

Patroklos' BB on block is -6, this is the standard for normal BBs. In post block situations where you are at +6 or better, 6BB will catch movement at close range. At tip range +6 instances 6BB CAN be stepped. Now could you just 2A or 3A in this kind of situation? Yes. But 6BB also kills backstep in this scenario so its more inclusive in terms of things it can counter. Keep in mind when you have instances that you yourself scored a hit and are now at +6 or better (2A, SE A, WR K) this can apply. 6BB is a high however, so a meaty TC will stop this tactic cold. I also cannot speak on all characters as this is just what the guide says.

Alpha Patroklos 33B is -11 and gives everyone a difficult time. If the Alpha pat dares to move or press a button after this block, BB will stop all attacks and movement from this point. This example illustrates that BB is an option on instances on +10 or greater for you in terms of stopping movement. As it is a mid/mid string, tech crouches cannot beat this move choice.

More specific examples include on a post 22A CH, BB cannot be escaped. On CH 3A, 3B cannot be escaped.

Using 6BB to snuff 2A attempts
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If an opponent is pressing a competent offense, you know they are going to get cute with their 2A interrupts. Heck, even during your own offense opponents will try to sneak 2As in to stop your momentum. A spot where 6BB snuffs a 2A cold is when you are at +4 or better.

As seen here, Algol's 66B on block is -4, so +4 for you. A common thing (Yomi Level 1 per se) Algol players can do here is a decision between a 2A or 623B to beat your 2A. If the Algol attempts a 2A here, your 6BB will smack his ass. +4 Situations you can create include on hit AA, 4K, WR B, and 3K. (Maybe others I am forgetting)

 

[Jimbonator]

33KB Brave Edge Analysis
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I can say with confidence that we all have developed some sort of parlor trick with this move on hit. For max meterless damage, a 2B finish is the best. A neat thing about 2B is that it kind of forces them to the ground, so they cannot tech. If the opponent chooses to roll after this, a FC K will catch them for extra damage. Making this is an attractive oki option for Raphael. The other follow up we are familiar with is 6BB. Depending on air control, 6BB can be a great move to use as incorrect air controlling yields a juggle effect with continuous Prep BBs, which a finish in shadow evade to force a mix up. More immediate shadow evade entries can have you do 6AB and go right into shadow evade.

Someone translate this into actual english via testing to see what circumstances yield a 3B follow up.

If you hit an airborne opponent with this move, 236B will combo. If you want to further your gimmick level, opt for 8A+B follow up instead and hope they air control incorrectly, as then 33KB(BE) -> 8A+B -> 236B is a combo. Refer to my Algol punishment video for 33AB punishment to see an example of this.

Cross-up Tricks
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As seen here if the opponent side techs after a 236B hit, you enforce a 50/50 mix up between a side needle and a throw by performing a forward jump after the initial hit. If the opponent back techs or rolls, this trick obviously will not work as seen in the picture. If they roll, you are still at considerable frame advantage upon landing. If they back tech just work the same mix up but with the a different mid.

Upon the success of a CH Prep BBB combo (From something like a 4B or SE B combo) if the opponent side techs, a cross up into a immediate throw attempt will result in a back throw.

Side Needle Combos on Specific Guard Breaks
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As seen here, 66B+K breaks result in a free 2B+K which leads to lovely damage. This is a good option if you are just having issues netting a 3B break. According to my interpretation of the guide, this can be a little inconsistent and does not really work on Dampierre, Ezio, and Yoshimitsu.

236B break can net a 8B+K combo on Cervantes, Yoshimitsu and Nightmare.

Critical Edge Invisibility Frames
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On frame two, Raphael is invincible during his CE start up. Enough said.

 

[WuHT]

Awesome links

Really never thought about the post block 236B and how to draw out whiffed 2A (thought it was just a random thingy).

66B+K GB leading to needle combos ? I need to try that too.
Funny that, despite being both i16, in most situations where the opponent tries to side step at disadvantage, BB catches way better than 3B.

And lastly, I don't know about the CE being invincible frame 2. My testing shows its frame 10 (being 2 frames BEFORE impact, rather than frame 2 of input). Pictures do not lie though, so that pyrrha picture is baffling to me

---I wish i could read japanese

 

[Gamegenie222]

Nice thread you have with some tech that I didn't even know about. Also in a situation with Maxi if he blocks 236B at max range, he will be pushed out and his FC A will whiff and because of that you can try to set up a 4A+B aGI setup and counterattack with the aGI followup. Just a thought that I should put out here.

 

[optymuss]

I love the way you sweat.

Anyway, 2_8B+K is useful in whiff punishing advancing verticals (typical BBs)

You must step quickly and input 2_8B+K. If you tap 2 or 8 twice it will realign raph and he will whiff, so (2)/(8) :2_8B+K.

Follow up with A+B A 2B/2K (dont know if JG during stun is legal)

4A puts opponent in BT if you evade an advancing mid. Good mix up potential in this situation. 8B+K will track also due to off axis
-tracking will also apply to 22K, 8A, and any other move which shifts the axis
4A and 2_8B+K are good for close range while B+K is good for long -mid range.
(Raph is king of verticals)

22K will put opponent in BT on NH, another good mix up.

 

[CaptainHook]

I tried implementing 236B-2 B+K (or 8 B+K) at kissing range, but I keep getting interrupted over and over with various moves. It seems like a highly risky yomi decision to me, but then again I ain't no pro.

tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Slade]

tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Fighting players who don't know about or attempt the FC A punish.

Not bothering to punish 236B is tantamount to bending over and begging for Raph to 236B them in the ass until their guard bursts. It's very difficult to come out on top in guard damage in an exchange involving 236B. Even when Raph is at -12 6BB/2A/3A/etc are fast enough to beat out the typical moves that would match or exceed the guard damage taken by blocking 236B, e.g. Mitsu 236[B], Oprah 4B, Nightmare 66B, or others.

 

[CaptainHook]

I think I understand better now. Thanks!