Against Maxi...

DeluksZ

DeluksZ

[08] Mercenary
Hello guys!

So I have been playing Yoshimitsu since I bought SC IV and playing mostly online with a win ratio of 75% (+/-5%) but what bothers me that a blind 3 years old maxi player with one arm can beat me like 9 times perfect in 3 rounds.

I don't say I am experienced, but experienced in other fighting games and I know that to be professional knowing your moves is just around 40% of the knowledge and knowing the moves of your enemies is what really counts and of course I am not at that level of knowledge yet. Fortunately my brother plays Maxi so I'll have the chance to practice against him, but yet I can't do anything.

As a lvl17 Yoshi player I mostly play against casuals with a win ration usually below 30-40%. At this lvl I hardly find anybody with a better ratio, or if I do we have a signal of 2 or 3 which is not good for playing. So I usually win with some CH 6B combos and some followups. It is not hard really. But against maxi I can't use CH, I can't go to range, and I'm shocked, ending up blocking all the time and sucking all the throws.

He is just fast, and he changes middle, high, low attacks without presign or time. Trying to CH? I get hit. Trying to 4B+K, A? Get hit during. Trying some stance abuse? Get hit. I don't really have time to playing my style, nor to playing as a spammer or a noob, pressing, AA, BB, AA, BB 100% of the time. I have only time to suck on the attacks and lose to 0-3.

I am curious about some special Yoshi stuff against Maxi, cuz I'm going to be crazy if some "win:10 lose: 112" Maxi beats me again.

belive me I'm trying and sidestepping, and mix up attacks, but if the Maxi player, above it's neutral abilities, good at throw breaking or timing GI-s then there is no way I can figure out a good tactic against him.

(Just for the record, today I played against a decent Yun player who beated me 4 times in a row with usually 2-3 1-3 etc... That was good. I knew what to do mostly, and he knew how to react. I knew my mistakes and got better all the time we played. What I am talking about Maxi is absolutely not the same. I'm shicked, I'm stunned, I'm in panic. I hope you get the point.)

If the mods find this topic useless feel free to delete it
 
maxi can be tough for those who dont know him. If you get 10 different maxi's together, chances are you will get 10 different maxi styles. Maxi is only intimidating by looks. as in he seems to be always moving. Rather its stepping or looping or swinging those chucks around. And that confuses people not used to maxi. I guess thats the whole idea.

Believe it or not, maxi is wide open almost all the time. If you main yoshi, I recomend to block low most of the time, cause maxi's low game sucks and he has to start his strings with a "high" move such as 6A. Yoshi has a really quick 2K, that will interupt maxi. also if you dont use yoshi's imcf, use it, whore it, damn near spam it when you can. Use 3AB, a:B+K follow ups. Theres also nothing wrong with just AA, BB, type stuff. cause yoshi stances are something I look for when I fight yoshi and I usually punish the crap out of yoshi for using them. Dont get me wrong, dragonfly mixups on wake ups are fun and then take advantage of your free door knockers.

My suggestion would be to sit down with your brother and use maxi. Get to know maxi and his moveset and combos, and you will learn that maxi is ALOT of work to win with. I main maxi, im used to it. But I will eat alive those who do not know him. So I believe that to be your biggest hurdle. You cant get real flashy, and fancy while fighting him. Stick to yoshis solid simple moves, they work. and learn imcf, learn imcf, learn imcf!!!
 
It seems Maxi is not your problem, learning how to play Yoshi effectively is. Do not rely on 6B and REF A to win matches for you, because 6B stun can be broken by a knowledgeable player and REF A is the only decent move out of REF stance, so it can become extremely predictable. Also, if you are getting hit out of stances, learn to use certain stances appropriately. On knockdown, DGF is Yoshi's bread and butter. You have options of low, mid, unblockable (SDGF B), throws, and the mix-ups can go on and on. Also, if you are a determined Yoshi player who gets combos off of 6B stun, replace 6B with iMCF (2a:B:). It is a hard move to do at first but you will get it eventually, and it is a fucking life saver. It is 8 or 9 frames, the stun from it can not be broken, and it can lead to massive combos. For example, if you want to learn how to use your stances more effectively, if you get off an iMCF CH you can follow up with 22B, 3AB, a:B+K, 44B+K canceled into MED and use mix-ups from MED stance. Also, if your opponent is laying down tons of pressure and you need to get him off of you, AA and BB will save your life. AA is 11 frames, so it can beat out a TON of moves and is great for anti pressure. If you had XBL I would be glad to play you and show you some things but for now all I can give you is this advice. I probably didn't even cover half the shit you should learn to do or be applying but this seems to be the basic Yoshi player knowledge.
Oh, and stop playing ranked matches, they are quite a joke ;).
 
Even at the higher levels in ranked play, I still wind up facing some Maxis. Here's some observations from me that may or may not help you.

In order to start up his stance/attack chains, Maxi needs to do an initial attack. Most Maxis will start with AA or BB to do this, even though they're subpar choices. A strategy that works well for me against one Maxi opponent in particular is spacing. This player is very offensive-minded and always wants to get started on his attacks, so I simply back up out of his reach and then come in with a timed 8WR A+B to smash him as that first AA or BB finishes. Rinse and repeat.

Guard Impacts can derail Maxi very well when you can't space him properly. After blocking the first AA or BB in close, figure out the timing needed to GI whatever stance move he sends out at you afterwards. After impacting him, use a throw to get him down and set up Yoshimitsu's strong wakeup game, where you can nail him with a low to re-trip him and Door Knocker juggle him, or launch him with 3B into an air juggle of your choice.

6B counter-fishing can be effective, but it's not Yoshimitsu's fastest move. If you need to shut down a comboing Maxi, and iMCF isn't an option (lets be honest, it probably isn't), stay simple. A 2A timed in between his strings should shut down just about everything he does, covering step and several of his tech-crouching attacks. A couple of his jumping attacks might go over it, but jumping attacks will knock you down, which isn't a bad thing (see below). Landing a simple 2A will wreck his rhythm and force him to restart with AA or BB, and since those moves are actually pretty slow (as AAs and BBs go) you'll have a chance to get some pressure on him before he can start them up (possibly with a counter-fishing 6B, or by taking his head off with 6K2K).

Chances are he'll knock you down at some point. This is where it's important that you don't panic. You need to remember, at your level, you're not playing very good Maxis. If anything, they're Dial-A-Combo Maxis. The Confused Maxi, as that comic calls it. ;) If you're knocked down, just take a breather and lay there. Roll around a bit, not too much at a time as that will force you to get up, but do a couple of side rolls and then stop. Watch as Maxi continues to savagely attack the air in front of him. Wait for Maxi to perform a tremendous jump kick and go sailing over you. Then pop up and throw him from behind. Note: Maxi does have a fast, strong guard-breaking attack while his back is turned. Second note: Low level Maxis are far more likely to keep blindly attacking the empty space in front of them than they are to actually use this good attack.

Even against a good Maxi, staying down is beneficial. It'll encourage him to use his stomp-nunchuck ground-hitting combo. Why is that good? It's a perfect opportunity to safely get up. Train the opposing Maxi to use that on you when you're knocked down by not getting up right away, then the next time he knocks you down and he goes for it, immediately block low. You'll stop his attack and he'll be wide open for whatever counter you have in mind. This strategy works well against lots of foes, but Maxi is a good place to start with it.

That should be a start. As you play more Maxis, you'll start to understand how his combos flow together and learn the natural openings where you can counterstrike, when to block low, and so on and so forth. Until then, try out what I've said above, and you should do a lot better.
 
WoW Guys! I knew this forum is active, but to get this amount of advice in this short time is surprising me:) Although the quality of the comments was high above what I expected so I really appriciate your works, thanks a lot. Decided on replying to you one by one.

Hot_Rod_Dave:

Yeah, playing a lot of matches against my brothers Maxi will make me an expert against him sooner or later. That is just something what can't be dodged. This is the good part about being somebody to play with all the time (the bad thing is, I'll strongly depend on his playstyle but that can be fixed kinda fast I hope) I'll play him a lot for sure. One thing I realized already that his jumping kick GB can be alaminated by a good timed :A:+:K:. Works most of the time if I see him coming. Although I really have to timing GIs better. That is what will improve by playing, and mostly playing against Maxi. And the low-guarding game... I have already realized the importance of that.

GynormousFish:

You are sooo right. I am far from playing Yoshi decent at this point. The thing is, I just don't have to use more. Time to time I try to mix up things, but if I don't have to usually I end up with useless stances just to show "I'm not a spammer" or something, but this is stupid. Although iMCF. Well, I'm dreaming of this move since the comments of yours:) It seems the most basic and strong advice and of course I can understand why:)

XiahouMao:

Mate, your explicit description maybe will help the most. I'll definately try those things out on my brother to see how they works, and the staying-down never came into my mind till this time. Although, iMCF appears here too, so yes...

iMCF iMCF iMCF iMCFiMCF iMCF iMCF iMCF
​

I won't forget:) Also any more advices are welcome. I'll appriciate them. I'll keep you updated about my improving (if there will be any) and will spare my experiences.
 
DeluksZ said:
Hot_Rod_Dave:

Yeah, playing a lot of matches against my brothers Maxi will make me an expert against him sooner or later. That is just something what can't be dodged. This is the good part about being somebody to play with all the time (the bad thing is, I'll strongly depend on his playstyle but that can be fixed kinda fast I hope) I'll play him a lot for sure. One thing I realized already that his jumping kick GB can be alaminated by a good timed :A:+:K:. Works most of the time if I see him coming. Although I really have to timing GIs better. That is what will improve by playing, and mostly playing against Maxi. And the low-guarding game... I have already realized the importance of that.

.
Click to expand...

thats a great idea. Playing maxi is always a good idea. As far as the GB kick, That kick is very easily ducked on reaction. It would be a better Idea to duck it as opposed to a+k it because a lot of times you will end up the wrong direction and lose your punishment oppurtunity (B+K anyone?) or you have another world of options to punish that with. I very seldom use that kick. because anyone who knows maxi even a little will duck it and beat the crap out of me. My main purpose would be to close in the gap cause my opp is playing the distance game. Use 4BK for that. But that kick comes out of a few very familiar strings that you need to train yourself to recognize. when you use it to close a gap, EXPECT it to be blocked. Its still poitive frames on block so you will have the advantage. use the gaurd breaks for exactly what they are called. Guard breaks. then punish. thats one of maxis staples. LI B cancels and other options are some of my favorites.
 
you can do what I do and try and parry every single string and some days look like a god and other days look like a fool while playing maxi....its actually really fun. OR you can do the BORING way and use a lot of 2A and imcf (2A is more of a "if you fail imcf"). Maxi is not a bad match-up for yoshi at all...he is just a bulldog. But if you find the right bone you can fuck his shit up REALLY easily. Also...almost ALWAYS after an impact...use 214 A. It ducks his highs (maxi's most used tap move is a high...)..most people don't block after getting impacted...and sometimes the move actually moves you a little to the side to the degree that even someone like mitsu will miss his BB. Then use 9 b+k, b to net yourself 69 or so damage jsut for having impacted a maxi player (YAY).

Another tip... use BB and AA a bunch as well. A lot of times because maxi is a bulldog player...they will just keep trying to start there chain..and if you just go BB, BB, BB a lot of the time they will be getting hit by all of your B's (both making them look stupid and takign a lot of damage). Pokes are in general a maxi player's nightmare because maxi is a string character and in order to get into his strings he needs to have a starting attack.

Since you use yoshi...another SUPER option...is to duck a lot and use fc 3k. why? because maxi goes high a LOT of the time in his chains and the trip is unblockable if he's in the middle of a string. This along with good spacing makes maxi easy to take down with yoshi.

Then of course like gyro said you also just need to get better with yoshi in general. But there is nothing wrong with playing ranked...the more important thing is to make sure you are getting in matches where you have a good connection and are not playing someone that just completely sucks. But genearlly speaking you'll get a better experience for learning purposes from player matches and not ranked because people don't spam laggy crap as much in player matches. And since there is no way to see the players rank in player matches, you are gonna be playing a much wider variety of skilled players...and the best way to learn is to get beat..just not beat so bad that your extremely frustrated.
 
Nothing important, nothing worth mentioning so this is just a simple refresh, but...

...managed to do some iMCF and usually 3-4 in a row. I stepped on the path, now I only have to walk till the end :)
 
Want to know what I do against Maxi?

iMCF, 3A, 3B, 4AAAA JF
6B, Ba
44bB Juggles combos

These are the combos I use against Maxi, whether they be experienced, or a button masher.
 
^ bA isn't guaranteed after CH 6B though, I'm quite positive. And do you really pull off the 4:A series and 44bB consistently enough to make those part of your main game? I would think not (this is just an assumption after watching some of your matches on youtube). But to the OP, just stick to using the basic things that work unless you have completely mastered these things because they can sometimes cost you the match.
 
GynormousFish said:
^ bA isn't guaranteed after CH 6B though, I'm quite positive.
Click to expand...

yep...VERY much so not guaranteed. And its a horrible choice if you know there is even a 50/50 chance of a opponent shaking the VERY shakeable 6B. Personally I find 214 A, 9B+K, B a much better choice after CH 6B. The reasons being that its a low...so most people that shake the stun won't think to duck right away (not at first...but once u get them ducking right away you can start using 3B instead)...and also it does more damage..69 if they don't shake the stun, more if they shake and then you get it off anyway (which happens a LOT). And 6B doesn't hit as much as you'd want against a very pushy bulldog maxi player. Sometimes its a good choice...but a lot of the time its not. 3b is good though..cuz it has a slight tech crouch built into it and maxi has a lot of highs (as well as he has a lot of 3b punishable frame points in the middle of his strings if he's not being really safe with pokes).
 
also another idea is to do 4A+B (i think thats the side teleport spin thing) just so u get out of his atacks.... that and use the 4A+K if ur geting ur @$$ kicks and the clock is on 2... the drunken master might help out if u time it well....

but those are just two real simple ideas
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back