VR-Raiden
[08] Mercenary
I have been getting wrecked by Natsu players. Anyone got any useful info on this match up? I'll be looking at it in training myself later.
Algol Matchup Discussion
- Thread starter VR-Raiden
- Start date
PartyEagle
[09] Warrior
welcome to soul calibur 5, natsus are just gonna do that. the best thing i have found it to never let her play her game , space her out, zone her, or RTSD never let a natsu get the offensive . ever.
Mage
I'll make you submit!
Natsu players (most) spam 4A+B46 ~ 8B+G. Step backwards and punish her when she misses. Be careful, it sometimes whiffs.
VR-Raiden
[08] Mercenary
Safest bet I've found when you see/think they're gonna 4A+B is 9K. Can't punish it with anything on block =(
Blocked 1A is a free 4BA.
Blocked 1A is a free 4BA.
crow_winters
[11] Champion
I honestly don't have a issue blocking 4a+b, the only time i really get hit by it is if I run into it. It's reaallly slow (i30) so if you're getting hit as a mixup, just go into training mode and practice jumping it. Hell, might even be possibile to JG it on reaction at that range. The only fear there is her canceling into the A, not sure how that'd effect it.
Red_Reaper
[08] Mercenary
Natsu was my original main, and I have since switched to Algol.
Natsu's ranged attacks are for the most part unsafe and Algol kan play keep away quite well. You just got to keep track of your spacing.
As for 4A+B. If you react fast enough you kan do any crouching attack and beat her. She kan only kancel it into the A which hits high.. It's really not that good. If you happen to react late, then just low block, if she kancels into the A it'll wiff. I think some people just overestimate that move (and Natsu in general).
Natsu's ranged attacks are for the most part unsafe and Algol kan play keep away quite well. You just got to keep track of your spacing.
As for 4A+B. If you react fast enough you kan do any crouching attack and beat her. She kan only kancel it into the A which hits high.. It's really not that good. If you happen to react late, then just low block, if she kancels into the A it'll wiff. I think some people just overestimate that move (and Natsu in general).
crow_winters
[11] Champion
Does the high cancel not hit JG attempts? Well, I guess it wouldn't it you held 2, that answers my own silly question lol
Tiamat
[11] Champion
I've played this one against a few people but don't have much opinion on who wins the matchup so far. Asta 22B is pretty annoying and you gotta be careful with your A+B/1B/66B/other linears if they are prone to throwing out out. Provided you don't get stepped your pokes are faster than his though. Another problem is that a lot of Algol's step killers are high so they lose to bullrush, though they should beat out his 22B just fine.
Since your 1K is +0 on hit you can get some pressure from this since Asta is a slow character, plus his backstep is pretty cruddy. If your 66B is blocked you can backstep out of Asta's grab range no matter how close you were when the 66B was guarded. A somewhat nifty thing is that if you land 2B+KB and asta tries to roll sideways on the ground he will get caught by the bubble as long as you didn't hit the 2B+K from too far out.
For defense, make sure you've got your throw breaking ready at all times and also do take the opportunity to duck predictable grab attempts and get your free WR B combo. His A command grab BE can reverse RO, as can his B crouch grab. His A crouch grab and B command grab can front RO. Bullrush doesn't knockdown on normal hit like in previous games but it gives a hefty frame advantage to astaroth on hit. Don't block more than you have to though as he can bust up your guard pretty quick.
Also be aware that certain combos do not work on astaroth. For example, it does not seem possible to get two QI Bs in the same combo against him.
Guard Punishing:
To punish Bullrush BE, just DP the second hit. If you block it close you can step left (clockwise) to avoid it but if you block it from far you can't step it.
6K blocked = free AA
1KA = free 4BA after 1st hit whether he does A followup or not
2B+K (1B in SC4) = free 4BA/FC 8B/66B if in range. FC 8B seems to have a bit more range than 4BA here. if you block it from far out you can only punish with CE
Since your 1K is +0 on hit you can get some pressure from this since Asta is a slow character, plus his backstep is pretty cruddy. If your 66B is blocked you can backstep out of Asta's grab range no matter how close you were when the 66B was guarded. A somewhat nifty thing is that if you land 2B+KB and asta tries to roll sideways on the ground he will get caught by the bubble as long as you didn't hit the 2B+K from too far out.
For defense, make sure you've got your throw breaking ready at all times and also do take the opportunity to duck predictable grab attempts and get your free WR B combo. His A command grab BE can reverse RO, as can his B crouch grab. His A crouch grab and B command grab can front RO. Bullrush doesn't knockdown on normal hit like in previous games but it gives a hefty frame advantage to astaroth on hit. Don't block more than you have to though as he can bust up your guard pretty quick.
Also be aware that certain combos do not work on astaroth. For example, it does not seem possible to get two QI Bs in the same combo against him.
Guard Punishing:
To punish Bullrush BE, just DP the second hit. If you block it close you can step left (clockwise) to avoid it but if you block it from far you can't step it.
6K blocked = free AA
1KA = free 4BA after 1st hit whether he does A followup or not
2B+K (1B in SC4) = free 4BA/FC 8B/66B if in range. FC 8B seems to have a bit more range than 4BA here. if you block it from far out you can only punish with CE
Roujin
[08] Mercenary
Regular bullrush can just be straight up stepped as well if they don't do it from point blank range and it leaves Asty wide open.
Don't get too cocky at close range, Asty's 4A and 4K are FAST and 4K will put you in crumple stun on counter.
Oh also don't think you'll be safe floating around shooting bubbles down at him, his 22B, 44AB and some of his other huge verticals will just swat you out of the air.
Don't get too cocky at close range, Asty's 4A and 4K are FAST and 4K will put you in crumple stun on counter.
Oh also don't think you'll be safe floating around shooting bubbles down at him, his 22B, 44AB and some of his other huge verticals will just swat you out of the air.
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
At Final Round I'm planning to use Algol in a counterpick scenario against Asta since my main Yoshi has way too much problems with him. I'd love a ton of in-depth analysis.
SomeRandmFreak
[10] Knight
Can we turn this into a general matchup thread instead of just focusing on one character? I feel like it would be more beneficial.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
no, we're not doing it that way. one topic per character so discussion stays focused. though there is very little discussion in algol board...
there is a sticky with punishment lists and notes that I've been working on. any matchup threads people make will be linked to there
Slade
[14] Master
66B > Astaroth at all times.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
step or 22B beats your 66B though
Force-Destruct
[10] Knight
Whenever you block Asta's bullrush, if you do not JG the bullrush for free 3B launch combo, you are in mix up range because it is -10 on block so anything he tries would be pummeled by Algol.
You also want to use a lot of TC attacks, and some of which include 66B, 44B, 623B, 66A, 22_88A, 3AA, 2K, 2A, 11_77AA etc.
You also want to use a lot of TC attacks, and some of which include 66B, 44B, 623B, 66A, 22_88A, 3AA, 2K, 2A, 11_77AA etc.
kenpachi
[08] Mercenary
how do u fight against the alexandria +Apat : i found his kit extremely unsafe and been eated alive by just wait and punish game, and by the way i've got beaten real hard by hardsteppers no viable tools agains step into TC moves...
Tiamat
[11] Champion
What moves are you doing that are getting punished on guard?
as for dealing with characters quickstepping to TC moves, this could indeed be annoying for Algol since he doesn't have any particularly stellar mid/low stepkill options. You've got 2A (short range, weak), 1K (short range, weak), 3AA (unsafe), and 22A(too slow) so since none of the options are that great you may want to just sidestep/backstep if you predict them to use a sidestep to a TC move.
as for dealing with characters quickstepping to TC moves, this could indeed be annoying for Algol since he doesn't have any particularly stellar mid/low stepkill options. You've got 2A (short range, weak), 1K (short range, weak), 3AA (unsafe), and 22A(too slow) so since none of the options are that great you may want to just sidestep/backstep if you predict them to use a sidestep to a TC move.
kenpachi
[08] Mercenary
4A,B unsafe and sometimes the B part just wif
44A,A unsafe
4B,A unsafe
3B unsafe both version
3A,A unsafe
all of his lows are unsafe...
u left with pokes... he's not the best at it besides doing ok...
and for the step into tc the problem is how u can prevent ppl for abused it exemple :
u block a BB from pyrrah and u have to hodl urself back cause most of ur options are steppables and/or duckables, it's just too profitable for her to ever step and do 236 A/B, if u start get her with 3AA she end up blockin it and u get punish..
i know it's mind game but why do u have to be the one to choose although u had the priority ...
i'm lookin for something move/or gameplay style that can prevent this particular abuse...
sry for my english skills i'm french by the way...
44A,A unsafe
4B,A unsafe
3B unsafe both version
3A,A unsafe
all of his lows are unsafe...
u left with pokes... he's not the best at it besides doing ok...
and for the step into tc the problem is how u can prevent ppl for abused it exemple :
u block a BB from pyrrah and u have to hodl urself back cause most of ur options are steppables and/or duckables, it's just too profitable for her to ever step and do 236 A/B, if u start get her with 3AA she end up blockin it and u get punish..
i know it's mind game but why do u have to be the one to choose although u had the priority ...
i'm lookin for something move/or gameplay style that can prevent this particular abuse...
sry for my english skills i'm french by the way...
Tiamat
[11] Champion
- 4AB is unsafe yes and 2nd part whiffs if too far away. I think 66A and 33A are better options
- 44AA is not a crucial move, you have other stepkill options like 66A and 33A
- 4BA should only be used as a punisher, too unsafe otherwise. use 66B instead
- 3B/3BB being unsafe does suck, she can stab or the 2nd hit can be just guarded for more abuse. You just have to try to use this move as little as possible vs her. for standing mixups use 66B, if you're going for oki you'll have to settle for something weak like 2B if you don't want to be punished and want something that hits ground
- 3AA unsafe does suck. you have no other decently fast mid stepkill option though, so if you're close you can try to 2A instead but otherwise nothing really
BB on block...
- 2A will beat both step and TC attacks up close. she could backstep the 2A though, or you'll whiff if you blocked the BB from far. she could also jump attack/A+B it
- backstep is a safe option. if she does 236A/236B she may whiff depending on the distance, and even if you are blocking BB from very close you can backstep guard her attacks and punish if it was unsafe
- sidestep will avoid her doing 236B, another BB, etc. suggest sidestep left (clockwise) vs pyrrha
- if you predict her to do anything other than step 66B should stuff it. for some reason it tends to blow through her A+B
- if you predict a step you can try 6AAB for highest damage, you get over 60 with it. not safe of course
I do see the problem though. you have to be careful against her in this situation. hope this helps
Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
Step into TC move is a full commitment option. While Algol doesnt really have anything safe that beats it outside 2A range, he can anticipate it and simply backstep/sidestep into whiff punish. If Algol has meter, this mix-up will generally favor him. Teach your opponent to respect this and you can use more generic pressure options again.
4AB is easily hit-confirmable and has deceptive range. I personally favor this as my go-to step-killer. Almost nobody will punish the 1st hits for the same reason that nobody punishes Mitsus 33_66_99B. Learn to watch for the range it connects at and you wont have trouble with the 2nd hit whiffing.
44AA is extremely scary when you have you 2 full stocks of meter, I dont generally recommend using it otherwise. It does have a TC, tho, if a rather late one.
4AB is easily hit-confirmable and has deceptive range. I personally favor this as my go-to step-killer. Almost nobody will punish the 1st hits for the same reason that nobody punishes Mitsus 33_66_99B. Learn to watch for the range it connects at and you wont have trouble with the 2nd hit whiffing.
44AA is extremely scary when you have you 2 full stocks of meter, I dont generally recommend using it otherwise. It does have a TC, tho, if a rather late one.