Algol Matchup Discussion
- Thread starter VR-Raiden
- Start date
Tiamat
[11] Champion
kenpachi
[08] Mercenary
in order to advance the discussion I will post the match-ups i know of .Algol is a strong highs risks, highs rewards
pros:
- Big zoning, balls, 44B, 33ABk, the QI mix (flip), 66a
-huge damages with BE
-Big-CEX2 Crax combo easily
-66 A+G special throw that allows a mix up
-b+k and 8B+K,K for easy side change
-1 Good starter safe i18, Tc, good reach -4 (a great move)
-1 Dragon (623B) TC's auto-gi Lows AND mids (another great move)
-1 uber anti-backdash (4B + K)
cons:
-Very unsafe
Slow-
No reliable antistep beside 2A which was known to whiff time to time (his only safe mid circular is I27 lol, the second is an unsafe double hit 3AA i22 , and not confirmable, if u do only the first part for safety, ur opponent take 16 re-lol)
-a very poor throw range
-the CC (close-combat range) quickly become hellish...
-huge Metter comsumption but hardly generates some
-Little or no GBurst
-medium punishment (4BA I16 for 80 damage, i6KK I14 hyper CC or whiff to 40)
At the light of all this we must remember that the CC is not his range of predilection, you rather preferred the mid or long range ....
Algol - Apat: 4-6
slight disadvantage on damage, due to Algol general unsafeness APAT can exploit his punishment at max, unlike the others quick characters the range and speed of 33B prevent us from zoning effectively, The CC become very hard when u enter alpha's throw range wich is better than urs by the way....
Omega-Algol: 4-6
we're on par in the damage section, but again our unsafeness bring some troubles, we can't zone her very well due to DNS B whose super long range and super TC. She's outspeed us at CC and lot of her good moves are TC wich is really annoying for us, plus her 1K whose TJ beat us out of our 2A (move that i spam a lot at close range)....
Algol-Asta: 5-5 can be 4-6
he slightly outdamage us, we can't freely zone him due to 22B, at CC his throws are terrifying for all of our unsafe moves (since it is often unsafe -16 ), so we often find ourselves forced to duck without time for confirmation ... but we're faster (for once)....
Algol-Natsu: 4-6
OK so the CC is forbidden unlaess u wanna be insta-desintegrate(more speed, and A-6 JF punish everything, lot of TCs) ; the magic really happens when we see that the zoning based on A + B (the ball straigth mid-S) cannot be applied du to 66B TC under the ball Oo, oh yes, since you cannot punish this move, she's free to abuse it and plow us under...
Algol-Mitsu: 5-5
Strangely despites the rage, it remains a balanced game due to mitsu punish poorly(B68) and he may be zoned quite effectively, we also have very good options that can severely punish 4B abuse , he can put a strong pressure at 2KB range, but it remains very mindgame dependant...
Algol-Maxi: 6-4
we outdamage him, lack of punishement except at CC , a very good understanding of the match up is necessary, however, we can zone him like a whore....
Algol-Aeon: 6-4 maybe even 7-3
we outdamage him, lack of punishement, the CC(close combat range) is a bit dangerous but not that much Aeon is not especially fast ...
Algol-Viola: 4-6
we're even in damage (what a joke!), her pressure is pretty hard for us, she is extremely fast, and we can not zone her because of the orb, the only good point is her a lack of punishement ...
Algol-Nightmare: 6-4
he outdamage us mostly, no proper punishment, and for once we did not fear the CC (even more now with his nerfed throws), but be wary of the mid-range where he've got more tools than us, 4B + K do not catch the B + K stance (there's no direction 4 in it) so it can easily cause whiff. may be wary of zoning fo 33B. We can punish woot! especially the low throws with FC8B BE for great fuckin damage ahahahahah.
pros:
- Big zoning, balls, 44B, 33ABk, the QI mix (flip), 66a
-huge damages with BE
-Big-CEX2 Crax combo easily
-66 A+G special throw that allows a mix up
-b+k and 8B+K,K for easy side change
-1 Good starter safe i18, Tc, good reach -4 (a great move)
-1 Dragon (623B) TC's auto-gi Lows AND mids (another great move)
-1 uber anti-backdash (4B + K)
cons:
-Very unsafe
Slow-
No reliable antistep beside 2A which was known to whiff time to time (his only safe mid circular is I27 lol, the second is an unsafe double hit 3AA i22 , and not confirmable, if u do only the first part for safety, ur opponent take 16 re-lol)
-a very poor throw range
-the CC (close-combat range) quickly become hellish...
-huge Metter comsumption but hardly generates some
-Little or no GBurst
-medium punishment (4BA I16 for 80 damage, i6KK I14 hyper CC or whiff to 40)
At the light of all this we must remember that the CC is not his range of predilection, you rather preferred the mid or long range ....
Algol - Apat: 4-6
slight disadvantage on damage, due to Algol general unsafeness APAT can exploit his punishment at max, unlike the others quick characters the range and speed of 33B prevent us from zoning effectively, The CC become very hard when u enter alpha's throw range wich is better than urs by the way....
Omega-Algol: 4-6
we're on par in the damage section, but again our unsafeness bring some troubles, we can't zone her very well due to DNS B whose super long range and super TC. She's outspeed us at CC and lot of her good moves are TC wich is really annoying for us, plus her 1K whose TJ beat us out of our 2A (move that i spam a lot at close range)....
Algol-Asta: 5-5 can be 4-6
he slightly outdamage us, we can't freely zone him due to 22B, at CC his throws are terrifying for all of our unsafe moves (since it is often unsafe -16 ), so we often find ourselves forced to duck without time for confirmation ... but we're faster (for once)....
Algol-Natsu: 4-6
OK so the CC is forbidden unlaess u wanna be insta-desintegrate(more speed, and A-6 JF punish everything, lot of TCs) ; the magic really happens when we see that the zoning based on A + B (the ball straigth mid-S) cannot be applied du to 66B TC under the ball Oo, oh yes, since you cannot punish this move, she's free to abuse it and plow us under...
Algol-Mitsu: 5-5
Strangely despites the rage, it remains a balanced game due to mitsu punish poorly(B68) and he may be zoned quite effectively, we also have very good options that can severely punish 4B abuse , he can put a strong pressure at 2KB range, but it remains very mindgame dependant...
Algol-Maxi: 6-4
we outdamage him, lack of punishement except at CC , a very good understanding of the match up is necessary, however, we can zone him like a whore....
Algol-Aeon: 6-4 maybe even 7-3
we outdamage him, lack of punishement, the CC(close combat range) is a bit dangerous but not that much Aeon is not especially fast ...
Algol-Viola: 4-6
we're even in damage (what a joke!), her pressure is pretty hard for us, she is extremely fast, and we can not zone her because of the orb, the only good point is her a lack of punishement ...
Algol-Nightmare: 6-4
he outdamage us mostly, no proper punishment, and for once we did not fear the CC (even more now with his nerfed throws), but be wary of the mid-range where he've got more tools than us, 4B + K do not catch the B + K stance (there's no direction 4 in it) so it can easily cause whiff. may be wary of zoning fo 33B. We can punish woot! especially the low throws with FC8B BE for great fuckin damage ahahahahah.
Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
Some corrections:
66A and 4AB, while not mid, are very reliable anti-step moves. 66A has an extremely early TC, good range and is only barely unsafe. 4AB is easily hit-confirmable and does solid damage, just be aware that it is stepable at tiprange.
Algols meter gain is actually rather good. QI B, 33ABK (you should use this as your main meterless whiffpunisher), 66B, 4BA combos, 44B combos and many others all build very solid amounts of meter. This is more a matter of Algol being able to spend so much meter at once rather than him not building a lot compared to other characters.
Algols 4BA punishes Natsus 66B consistently and for more damage than almost every other character in the game without the help of a wall or ring edge.
66A and 4AB, while not mid, are very reliable anti-step moves. 66A has an extremely early TC, good range and is only barely unsafe. 4AB is easily hit-confirmable and does solid damage, just be aware that it is stepable at tiprange.
Algols meter gain is actually rather good. QI B, 33ABK (you should use this as your main meterless whiffpunisher), 66B, 4BA combos, 44B combos and many others all build very solid amounts of meter. This is more a matter of Algol being able to spend so much meter at once rather than him not building a lot compared to other characters.
Algols 4BA punishes Natsus 66B consistently and for more damage than almost every other character in the game without the help of a wall or ring edge.
kenpachi
[08] Mercenary
@sacharja u can't tell that u can punish consistly a move that is -16 on block with an i16 move lol, and moreover she can do 66B4 for even more safety... so we can assume that this move is quite safe against algol...
the moves u are refering to for metter gain aren't moves that u can spam every day, like other charac gained there metters said : mistu, viola, alpha, pyrra...
66A and 4AB are good moves indeed, at long range so, i'm adressing is problem at short range when u can only rely on 2A, sry for the misunderstanding...
the moves u are refering to for metter gain aren't moves that u can spam every day, like other charac gained there metters said : mistu, viola, alpha, pyrra...
66A and 4AB are good moves indeed, at long range so, i'm adressing is problem at short range when u can only rely on 2A, sry for the misunderstanding...
Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
I went to training mode and tested it prior to posting. The blockstun isn't short enough to make punishing it much of an issue (like say pre-patch pyrrha 236B) and there seems to be no impact fluctuation that can make the move -15 on block, maybe at the very tiprange. I forgot about the stance transition, but then 3B BE can probably hit her out of anything she tries afterward (even her PO A would be i21 in this situation), barring PO BE, and I need to test whether Natsu can confirm the block and go into stance or if she has to guess.
kenpachi
[08] Mercenary
@sacharja ok i'm gonna check myself and try to apply this in game ... so u think it's the match-up against her have to change to 5-5 maybe ?
Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
I lack the experience against a very good Natsu to make that judgement (I only played Kerrigan shortly after release, and only with Sieg). If I had to decide, tho, I'd put it at 4.5-5.5 in her favor for now.