Another Matchup Chart Attempt

mikosu

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
Pretty late in the game so we should have SOME idea of how these matchups work. I'll be looking around for more matchup charts later.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aksph0D3p8fidG1JakNJMVQwQTU4YVZ3SXRQYWU2Z0E&hl=en

Blue squares are matchups that add up. Editing is closed. Let's work to get this done people!

Required format when commenting on the matchups:
YOUR CHARACTER
YOUR PLAY EXPIERENCE (Tournament, casual, etc)
YOUR OPPONENT WHOM YOU CONSIDER HIGH LEVEL
THEIR CHARACTER
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATCHUP
YOUR REASONS
 
Let's keep focused. I'll give an example so we can keep this going.

YOUR CHARACTER - Tira
YOUR PLAY EXPIERENCE (Tournament, casual, etc) - Mostly casual
YOUR OPPONENT WHOM YOU CONSIDER HIGH LEVEL - CPU/training mode in this case, played this matchup with RTD once
THEIR CHARACTER - Hilde
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATCHUP - 3:7
YOUR REASONS - Tira weak to her left side and Hilde has the chance to aGI or step her anti-step with little risk. 33K is the only "no risk" anti-step" she has here and it's slow. On the + side she only has 2 C3B/C2BB-able moves one of which has the A+K protection (still in Hilde's favor). Only 2 of her lows are FC C2B-able. Other than that Tira can't be punished that hard. Still it's one mistake and you're gone or about 100 dmg so 3:7 seems appropriate.
 
To get back on topic here... My second attempt at a contribution.

CHARACTER: Talim
EXPERIENCE: Offline Tournament/Casual

MATCHUP: Talim vs. Astaroth
OPPONENTS: KDZ, Ramon, Woahhzz, Bibulus, NinjaCW, Saitoh, Rekki, Aneudee... others.
MATCHUP SCORE: 4/6 in favor of Astaroth

REASONS: Generally, Astaroth has range and a large power advantage over Talim. This makes him more dangerous in close quarters than she is, despite the fact that she'll need to be in close to contend with him. Asta can't space Talim too well due to lack of a good backstep move. This is essential to keeping Talim at bay for an extended period.

She beats Asta in speed and mobility. Talim has tremendous reward for successful evasion, and her RO game is as just about as good as his. Asta's size allows for Talim to get higher bonus damage off of some of her combos. Wind stances are a lot less risky against him due to lack of high damaging punishes (Aside from AS A, and AS A+B). Still, Astaroth's damage output is great, and is the major factor giving him the edge here.



MATCHUP: Talim vs. Ivy
OPPONENTS: Woahhzz, 350Z, Eli123s...
MATCHUP SCORE: 3/7 in favor of Ivy

REASONS: Ivy just wins at every range in this match. In SW Ivy's 3B wrecks the SG and pushes Talim out too far to retaliate quickly, while her 9B+K, K can punish a lot of Talim's moves on block. (Even clashes with a few of her TCs). In CL, she still wins the CF battle, and she can space Talim really well with 1B,B+K. And in WP, she can contain Talim's movement with moves like WP 3A, keeping her outside of Talim's 2K range. (bad for Talim)

Ivy also does more damage overall. The only real saving graces for Talim in this match, are her interrupt speed, and her ability to whiff punish Ivy pretty hard for a lot of things. Talim has better movement than Ivy altogether, (unless she is in CL state). So basically, Ivy can force Talim out of offensive mode, and keep Talim boxed-out better than 90% of the cast, but if Talim gets around her, it usually means she can really do some damage.



MATCHUP: Talim vs. Voldo
OPPONENTS: Sporko, Bibulus, OmegaXcN, Thugish Pond, Woahhzz,
MATCHUP SCORE: 3/7 in favor of Voldo

REASONS: Voldo is a hard fight for almost the same reasons as Ivy. (Damage, CF game, dangerous at most ranges...etc.) He can also punish her pretty well with JF 66Bs. However, Voldo can't contain Talim's movement nearly as well. In fact it's hard for him to do this at all, which gives Talim plenty of room to weave in and out of different ranges as she pleases. His better stepkillers are from his Blind stance rather than facing front.

Talim can handle blind stance rather well with her 44K, forcing him to block and lose Blind stance. In front stance, stepping him becomes twice as likely. Talim's step-punishers can do decent damage, cause knockdown or lead to ROs/tech traps/wakeup.

Generally, Talim has solid answers to all his tricks and stances, but Voldo is very safe and has lightning quick recovery off of his better moves. So, Talim has to really pick her spots when attacking in order to avoid getting hit with something fast, safe, (and TCs), that leads to a 55-60 damage combo.


MATCHUP: Talim vs. Sophitia
OPPONENTS: Malice, Bibulus, MTFighter, Ramon
MATCHUP SCORE: 4/6 in favor of Sophitia

REASONS: Sophitia is a punish machine. Therefore, Talim's general lack of safety hurts her here. Sophie's movement, her backstep in particular, becomes a real pain due to her excellent whiff punisher in TAS B.
She can space Talim to some degree with BB, AA, B+K, and movement, but not well enough to keep Talim away for long.

Talim still can move around well in this match, so she's not helpless. Her RO game beats Sophie's by a good deal, so even Sophie can't afford to eat a CH on any stages without walls. And her whiff punishing, as mentioned before, is nothing to take lightly. Talim has to approach the match more carefully, but this match is not overwhelming by any means.



MATCHUP: Talim vs. Amy
OPPONENTS: Bibulus, JJJ, Rigel, KDZ, Dreamkiller
MATCHUP SCORE: 4/6 in favor of Amy

REASONS: This was rather hard to determine, honestly. In theory, Amy is top tier while Talim is at the bottom, so most people would say this isn't surprising. But let's look at this objectively. Both these characters prefer fighting in close, so this eliminates any possibility of Talim being out spaced and out ranged. Both characters, do similar amounts of damage, especially on whiff. Both are around the same speed, with only Amy's 6BB as the exception. Both have good RO games.

In fact, the only reasons Amy gets the nod in this match is because she can punish things of Talim's most characters can't with 6BB, and the fact that Amy can get her damage off of totally safe options. Otherwise, the matchup doesn't get much more complicated than that. Realistically, because of these things, Amy does indeed have a slight advantage.



More to come later...
 
And there you have it. An absolutely perfect post from ZeroEffect317. This is what needs to be done so people don't play theory fighter for matchups. Use the format. It will keep you realistic.
 
Ok, I'll contribute my opinions. I believe in .5's, and I will use them here. However, since the matchup chart likely won't, I will also list a whole number score in parenthesis


Character: Voldo
Experience: Offline tournaments, twice weekly casual sessions.


Matchup: Voldo vs. Talim
Experience: Zeroeffect, Jaxel
Score: 6.5/3.5, Voldo (7/3)

Reasons: Zeroeffect more or less listed it, however I don't think he talked enough about the range advantage Voldo has. When in your face, the match quickly turns into a 5/5 (or perhaps even worse for Voldo) thanks to Talim's step quickly killing Voldo's front turned game, and the fast moves to quickly take Voldo out of blindstance combined with the pressure and guessing games Talim can put on you as long as she's close enough to you to smell your breath.

However, what makes the match lopsided against Talim is the fact that, if Talim is in Voldo's face (or back of Voldo's head, alternatively) and Voldo can find a way to take one or two steps back, much of Talim's arsenal is neutralized. If Talim does a move where she jumps backwards, I can more or less just 66B and whatever she does, it will just get elbowed. At that range she has to take gambles to get back in close without taking damage. Combine that with Voldo's superior damage and option selection and Talim's relative lack of safety, and it quickly starts to compound until it's obvious that Voldo has a clear advantage.

Matchup: Voldo vs. Seong-Mina
Experience: InsaneKhent
Score: 6.5/3.5 Voldo (7/3)

Reasons: If not for Voldo's gauge game, I would say it'd only be a 6/4, as there *are* ranges Mina can fight Voldo. At extreme ranges, her lightning fang (I think that's FC3B) can hit Voldo and his weak front step can make it somewhat difficult to avoid. However, more than that, the reason she can fight at this range is because at extreme ranges, Voldo's only options to attack or close distance are CR jump grabs or CR dives, easily seeable and beatable by ducking. Closing the gap means Voldo will take a hit most of the time. At medium range, Voldo has many more options and at this range I feel the fight is more even. Mina's force blocks and gauge game can make it very risky to play defensively with Voldo, but there's nothing at that range Mina can really do that Voldo can't handle, and Voldo has enough offensive options to fight back.

What makes this match lopsided, in a stark contrast to Talim, is what happens when Voldo gets in her face. He is much faster, and much safer. He applies a pressure to Mina that she simply cannot match, and between his BS sidestep throws, his high reward mixup game, rush down pressure and crushing gauge damage, Voldo starts to destroy Mina and Mina has to try and find a range where she can fight back. Yes, at extreme ranges Mina has some control but she has nothing but low damage pokes and she cannot make a comeback at this range.

The match would be far closer if Mina could play a turtling game (especially with Mina's great gauge damage herself) but Voldo's gauge damage and rushdown prevent them from being a plausible option and Mina is forced to outguess Voldo hile playing a tight defense *and* an offense strong enough to keep Voldo from running train on her.


Alright that's all I have time for now, but later on I'll post Voldo vs. Asta, Amy, Cass, Ivy and Sophie
 
Casual
Matchup: Raphael vs nightmare
Experience: tiamat Prometheus
Score: 5:5

Reasons: raph wins at mid to long range easily but nightmare has excellent ways to close the distance(GS A randomly at range) once up close no one has a clear advantage in terms of speed or damage.

if the raph manages to space nightmare he can take advantage of nightmares lack of strong ranged mids with his excellent TC. Nightmare renders 22B into VE useless because JF aGA beats all options on block. At range nightmares excellent step and 33B becomes a factor for raph. raph also has a tight roll so he can roll a lot of character specific tech traps that would not be rollable otherwise
 
Any chance that we are looking at the player's tier rather than the character's tier so the players can match-up accordingly?

My character: Taki
Experience: online games/tournament; offline once in a while

Mathc-up: Taki vs Mitsurugi
Opponent: That guy (I forgot)
Result: 3:7 Mitsu

Reason: Mitsurugi has more range in attack than Taki that if his attacks were to be executed perfectly Taki's attacks won't be able to reach Mitsurugi without being hit first. Speed of attack is almost the same. Couple solutions: Taki can step side to escape from Mitsu's verticals, but this can be easily parred with Mitsu' combination attacks. Taki can attempt with longer attacks such 66A, 1A, 66K, 6B, 4A but most of these are useful as they have very long recovery time.

The only way to win is to know the opponent's style in playing Mitsu or to mix up PO cancel to try to get close. Anyway that's what I think. I'm not exactly a tech player.
 
Character: Voldo
Experience: 25+ offline tournaments, over a year of twice weekly practice sessions


Matchup: Voldo vs. Amy
Competition: Dreamkiller, Rigel, JJJ, Bibulus, even a bit of Thugish Pond.
Score: 4/6, Amy

Reasons: If you take the way Voldo plays the game, boil it down to a pure, simple, super concentrated form, what you get is Amy. Voldo is a great rushdown character, Amy is a better rushdown character. Voldo is fast, Amy is faster. Voldo is safe, Amy is safer. Voldo has a good auto GI, Amy has a better Auto-GI. Voldo has a good wakeupgame (from front turned anyway), Amy has a much, *much* better wakeup game. Voldo has good mixups, Amy pretty much has *the* mixup in SC4. 2B+K is just THAT relevant.

Along that same vein, they do share weaknesses, namely vulnerability to step. But Amy's step is good, and Voldo's step is garbage, another point for Amy.

I would say their ringout game is even, but maybe a *slight* edge to Voldo simply due to the number of ways he can do it. The soul gauge game is almost certainly in Voldo's favor, but while writing this I actually had to ask a friend if Amy's gauge game was good. Why? Because with her pressure and mixups, I'm getting hit too much for my soul gauge to even be a factor 90% of the time.

Simply put, Amy does what Voldo does, she just does it all better.
 
CHARACTER: Maxi
EXPERIENCE: Offline casual, Online tournement/casual

MATCHUP: Maxi vs. Voldo
OPPONENTS: Manta, SorryBaskets(EvilParagon)
MATCHUP SCORE: 4/6 in favor of Voldo

REASONS: Voldo has the advantage because he is generally more powerful and has better range and safety, but Maxi's strengths do play in quite well against Voldo. Voldo has better range, damage, soul gauge, speed, and safety. But as we all know, Voldo's main weakness is that he is very steppable. Maxi has a good step and his B+K JF is good for 70 damage every time you step Voldo.
When it comes to range games, Voldo can cause some issues by backstepping away from Maxi. Other than 4B, most of Maxi's moves don't have the greatest range. But since 4B does have pretty good range, in order to space Maxi, Voldo has to play outside of mid-range, which limts his options.
Against blind stance, Maxi's 236K is very good at keeping Voldo honest with his BS A+B shenanigans.


MATCHUP: Maxi vs. Kilik
OPPONENTS: offline- KrayzieCD, other Nor Cal people. Online - OOF
MATCHUP SCORE: 3/7 in favor of Kilik

This matchup is pretty crappy for Maxi. Kilik has the advantage in range and safety, but what really makes this suck is Kilik's evasiveness. Things like 1B, WS B, or even 4B+K seem to move kilik out of range of just about everything that Maxi can throw out.
For Maxi to even put up any sort of a fight against Kilik, he pretty much has to change his game completely to counter Kilik's evasiveness. I end up throwing out a lot of 66B+K's to discourage the use of too much WS B. 66B+K is actually a pretty good move against Kilik, it rapes the soul gauge and Kilik can't punish it. Maxi can also use his step to counter Kilik's WS B's and 1Bs, but Kilik can also hurt you kinda bad for stepping.
Overall, just bad for Maxi. His worst matchup other than Algol.
 
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