anti-step

[Ooofmatic]

Vader seems really bad at stopping step. The majority of his moves (including his A's), can be stepped if not both ways then at least one.

I was disappointed when I tested 11AB and found that it can be stepped to its left. Characters with good step can even step it both directions. If this move countered step really well I would probably use it much more often.

It seems like a main aspect of Vader's good damage anti step game is to know which moves catch step in which direction, and use them according to which direction your opponent likes to step. But then catching step that way becomes like another mixup on Vader if the opponent knows about that.

Right now it I think his best step killer is FC A. It does very low damage but quickly and consistently stops step in either direction. A delayed 1B works too.

 

[Juez]

What about his 44A+K that usually stops most steps for a distance but it is really slow to execute. On a side not I was thinking that we should make a player guide for Vader. I would gladly do it but my vader skills are sub-par at best

 

[Revneg]

3A might be on the slow side, but it's unsteppable, as far as I know.

 

[Ooofmatic]

What about his 44A+K that usually stops most steps for a distance but it is really slow to execute. On a side not I was thinking that we should make a player guide for Vader. I would gladly do it but my vader skills are sub-par at best

I've tested 44A+K and with the right timing it can be stepped to the left. And you're right, it is pretty slow, but my main problem with it is the amount of force it uses. It's not worth it for me.

3A might be on the slow side, but it's unsteppable, as far as I know.

I completely forgot to mention 3A. I sometimes use this move to catch step as well, but for the most part I prefer FC A over it.

 

[Juez]

What about his A+K A? I wouldn't think that would be stepable

 

[Ooofmatic]

A+K can be stepped to its left.

After testing 3A out a bit more, it seems that in certain situations it can actually be stepped. One example is if Vader does 1B (hits)-> 3A, it can be stepped to its right. If 1B gets blocked the 3A can be stepped to it's left.

FC A seems to be the safest and quickest step catcher, along with good range. Unless you know which direction your opponent likes to step, this one seems to be the best.

Right now aside from FC A and 3A, I like to use 4AA to catch people who step to my left, and AA or sometimes 11AB for those who step to my right. 11AB is really good against those who 8wr instead of step.

 

[Juez]

Hey what about 2A I tend to catch people while they step though its usually by luck and 1A seems like a good step catcher

 

[Tactu]

I like 3A, I should probably use FC 2A more often. One move I use alot is 8A or 9A. It catches step well...too bad that it's high, but I haven't had this moved stepped yet.

 

[MegaMPL]

so i gues 236 A+B is out of the question

 

[JustKill]

MegaMPL, you can use 236A+B on wake up and it wont get stepped...but on normal standing opponents(step speed dependent) they can step it at a close(r) range, best to keep them at bay with this move if you wanna get any kinda of "anti-step" results, but i wouldn't rely on it.

It's start up speed isn't very fast on a normal standing opponent... characters like Sophie can TAS B/double TAS B you for free if they see the move coming even on start up animation...and is perfect range for her(in this case lets say max range 236A+B) to hit you with the Double TAS combo for well over 100 damage on CH, or just around that...i wont use this move out of its element, but if it's working for you, stick with it until it doesn't anymore.

 

[MegaMPL]

o alright... im lookin around the whole forum for vader tips thanks

 

[Tactu]

What does everyone think of A+K for stopping step? It's high, but it's the same speed roughly as 3A, it's 0 on block, +4 on hit/CH and has an A followup for more damage. I'll play around with it. I forgot to mention the major drawback to this move: it takes force. :(

 

[Omnis_Evrae]

Notes to A+K is that it tech crouches at i3 (credits to zombiebear666) but i don't think it lasts very long. It is a good move no doubt, but it doesnt fit into my game as i save the force for cancels, ring outs, and whiff punishing with 3B+K. I'll probably use it more often on non-RO stages though.

 

[Tactu]

What does everyone think of A+K for stopping step? It's high, but it's the same speed roughly as 3A, it's 0 on block, +4 on hit/CH and has an A followup for more damage. I'll play around with it. I forgot to mention the major drawback to this move: it takes force. :(

Wow, I'm an idiot. If i had read the thread more carefully I would have seen Oof already tested A+K. steppable. So only FC 2A and 3A are good at deterring step. I looked at the numbers for 11_33A and it actually looks decent enough to use on it's own...but it's still steppable. 44A+K uses like 1/2 your bar. Gah. Also, even though it's the wrong thread, I dunno why 44b A+Bg 22K > me + joystick, but i can't get that combo down. I practiced for like an hour.

 

[Juez]

Wow, I'm an idiot. If i had read the thread more carefully I would have seen Oof already tested A+K. steppable. So only FC 2A and 3A are good at deterring step. I looked at the numbers for 11_33A and it actually looks decent enough to use on it's own...but it's still steppable. 44A+K uses like 1/2 your bar. Gah. Also, even though it's the wrong thread, I dunno why 44b A+Bg 22K > me + joystick, but i can't get that combo down. I practiced for like an hour.

Yeah the timing is weird for that it also depends on the opponent your playing against. Anti-step is just 3A and FC2A it seems also from what I've noticed stepping can screw up your anti step as stuff whiffs as oof noted in my punishment guide

 

[Tactu]

So I played Miko quite a bit tonight (vader vs Yun) and I think as long as you're pretty judicious with the 3A/2A, it works well enough with delayed 1b and throws for vaders anti step. I found even though 2A is better numbers wise, 3A just seems to work a bit better if you're trying to keep the pressure on because you don't have to crouch. I also did Vader vs Vader, maxi and Kilik and it just seems like whatever 2A doesn't cover, 3A covers and then 1b/throw pressure catches the rest. Miko was the best test though, he had some great steps like he kept stepping to my left after CH 1ba and totally avoiding my followup 4b/4B+K. I tried doing throws but he started crouching. 2A wasn't a very big deterrent but when I started mixing in 3A it worked really well.