HydroJames
Shining Sea Dragon
I heard people are complaining about RE on Reddit forums...
Personally, I haven't had many issues with it.
Do you think RE is OP?
Personally, I haven't had many issues with it.
Do you think RE is OP?
Apparently, People are complaining about Reversal Edge. Shall we discuss?
- Thread starter HydroJames
- Start date
PSY
[09] Warrior
People are spamming it too much and I don't know why, it's like they think it's a win button
That's all I got
That's all I got
Fuzzieviking
[13] Hero
I dont mind it, i just kind of dont get why they added it? it's something I'd expect from doa not sol cal
SpellcraftQuill
[14] Master
It looks cool but should only happen during an actual clash.
Crash X
[14] Master
I’ve said this before in the general discussion, and I’ll say it again. RE honestly isn’t the best mechanic the series decided to bring to the game, but it’s not a bad mechanic either. It’s totally beatable. I just step anyone and whiff punish them should they predictably try to use it as a panic button.
Or I’ll just Voldo CR BBB them instead.
Or I’ll just Voldo CR BBB them instead.
AZYG4LYFE
Play FFRK
REDDIT
The amount of REs I crushed with GBs was insane..
What's funny is that the RE spam has made me a better player by being patient and look for the right openings. But I think as it is now, it's gonna annoy a lot of new players when they fight against RE spammers. I still think the meter gain is too big.
What's funny is that the RE spam has made me a better player by being patient and look for the right openings. But I think as it is now, it's gonna annoy a lot of new players when they fight against RE spammers. I still think the meter gain is too big.
Skiegh
[05] Battler
I'll pre-face this by saying that I have not gotten my hands on the game yet, so this is just a spectator's opinion on it...
- I don't hate the mechanic existing, my only concern with it, is if it somehow works it's way into the meta in a bigger way than we would like. Even at pro play, it's a fun mechanic, if seen more sparingly. However, if RE is seen on a round-by-round basis, I think that could get impeding really quick. If that does become the case, a lot of SCVI might revolve more about baiting and losing turns willingly for that, than mix-ups/pressure and such. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but, I am interested to see how it panes out.
- Everyone defaults to calling it RPS, when it's probably more equivalent to a card game. You have a full hand of 7~8 cards, you know that each cards have different values and weights, and you play around that. You can kind of count the deck as it were. Really just boils the game down to reads, which admittedly, is not what I particularly want -- but again, if it's a sparingly done mechanic, it's not a horrible thing.
- As the above said. It reducing the game down to nothing but reads sort of takes out so many factors which make fighting games fun.
- Removing the second round from it might be better? That way it's faster. Right now it takes AWHILE.
- The one instance I am probably okay with it's existence would maybe be post-GI, because you can sort of view that as a new layer to the GI game. It absorbing throws and such though might make that a bit too much, but, I'm not sure. I need to get my hands on it first to really see how that plays out.
- Design-wise, I think it steps on the toes of GI a little too much. It's a bit too similar. A good example of similar mechanics done right, would be... Just Guard versus Faultless defense in Guilty Gear. Both defensive mechanics, but do the exact opposite.
Exact opposites. Not the best example for how RE could be done better though. If I recall, a whiffed GI in VI hurts your guard gauge, much like RE does on whiff, yes? I feel like RE costing meter to use (or uses it the longer you hold it), but BUILDING more meter on success would help differentiate the mechanics.
- I think if I were going to be forced to design a mechanic like this myself, I would have made it absorb attacks as it does, but rather than on-hit forcing this mini-game, it actually just does a tiny bit of damage and pushes the opponent away. Sort of like a "get off me" tool to deal with difficult mix-ups. However, since Soul Charge also has "get off of me" qualities, then it would be stepping on the toes of that. Tricky...
- Overall, I know as someone who prefers gameplay over casual fluff, I would much prefer if it was just a focus attack and/or blitz attack and didn't have the whole visual flare and card game aspect to it. Since that won't happen though, I only hope it doesn't put itself into the meta in any huge way. I'm not TOO concerned, but... I do have some concern, hahaha.
- I don't hate the mechanic existing, my only concern with it, is if it somehow works it's way into the meta in a bigger way than we would like. Even at pro play, it's a fun mechanic, if seen more sparingly. However, if RE is seen on a round-by-round basis, I think that could get impeding really quick. If that does become the case, a lot of SCVI might revolve more about baiting and losing turns willingly for that, than mix-ups/pressure and such. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but, I am interested to see how it panes out.
- Everyone defaults to calling it RPS, when it's probably more equivalent to a card game. You have a full hand of 7~8 cards, you know that each cards have different values and weights, and you play around that. You can kind of count the deck as it were. Really just boils the game down to reads, which admittedly, is not what I particularly want -- but again, if it's a sparingly done mechanic, it's not a horrible thing.
- As the above said. It reducing the game down to nothing but reads sort of takes out so many factors which make fighting games fun.
- Removing the second round from it might be better? That way it's faster. Right now it takes AWHILE.
- The one instance I am probably okay with it's existence would maybe be post-GI, because you can sort of view that as a new layer to the GI game. It absorbing throws and such though might make that a bit too much, but, I'm not sure. I need to get my hands on it first to really see how that plays out.
- Design-wise, I think it steps on the toes of GI a little too much. It's a bit too similar. A good example of similar mechanics done right, would be... Just Guard versus Faultless defense in Guilty Gear. Both defensive mechanics, but do the exact opposite.
Just Guard: Requires timing before hit, builds meter, increases RISC gauge, take chip dmg, reduce blockstun, reduce pushback
Faultess: No timing, uses meter, stop RISC gauge build, no chip dmg, increase blockstun, increase pushback
Faultess: No timing, uses meter, stop RISC gauge build, no chip dmg, increase blockstun, increase pushback
Exact opposites. Not the best example for how RE could be done better though. If I recall, a whiffed GI in VI hurts your guard gauge, much like RE does on whiff, yes? I feel like RE costing meter to use (or uses it the longer you hold it), but BUILDING more meter on success would help differentiate the mechanics.
- I think if I were going to be forced to design a mechanic like this myself, I would have made it absorb attacks as it does, but rather than on-hit forcing this mini-game, it actually just does a tiny bit of damage and pushes the opponent away. Sort of like a "get off me" tool to deal with difficult mix-ups. However, since Soul Charge also has "get off of me" qualities, then it would be stepping on the toes of that. Tricky...
- Overall, I know as someone who prefers gameplay over casual fluff, I would much prefer if it was just a focus attack and/or blitz attack and didn't have the whole visual flare and card game aspect to it. Since that won't happen though, I only hope it doesn't put itself into the meta in any huge way. I'm not TOO concerned, but... I do have some concern, hahaha.
Withvees
[10] Knight
RE vs Online Takis is a 10-0 MU
SomeRandomHuman
[13] Hero
Haven't played the beta, as I'm away from my PS4 currently. So my impressions are solely based on videos and other member's posts.
At its core it's absolutely fine, though I'd like a few things changed:
lower its meter gain (it's insane right now)
no second round
it should deplete your guard gauge no matter what (as far as I know it only depletes on whiff, correct me if I'm wrong)
At its core it's absolutely fine, though I'd like a few things changed:
lower its meter gain (it's insane right now)
no second round
it should deplete your guard gauge no matter what (as far as I know it only depletes on whiff, correct me if I'm wrong)
LostSoul_83
[10] Knight
If it turns out to be a problem for a lot of people they could always patch in a 'classic' or 'pro' mode where RE is removed and meter builds in a more traditional way instead. That way both camps can be happy.
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- Moderator
- #12
Marginal
Chikara Sashimi
I generally dislike the concept. It's fairly easy to get around as long as you're thinking about it, but the why of it being included when GI is already hella buffed still leaves me cold.
- Moderator
- #13
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
I kinda feel like it's the opposite actually. GI being buffed to compete with the new mechanic.
If anything, I'd complain about CEs. Too many of them are too low risk
Waltzz92
[06] Combatant
I love Reversal Edge, especially the cinematic part of it. Sure, people are complaining. But Reversal Edge has advantages and disadvantages. Like any other move, people will learn how to punish those who spam it.
Hope the developers ignore the naysayers and leave the mechanic as it is.
Hope the developers ignore the naysayers and leave the mechanic as it is.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
REVERSAL EDGE HAVING ONLY 1 ROUND SOUNDS A LOT MORE APPEALING TO ME.
Aiddon
[10] Knight
Not really; there are ways to deal with it and it has serious drawbacks if whiffed or punished. Typically I used it as a "Knock it off!" button when against people spamming moves or overly aggressive players when I couldn't use a Guard Impact.
All my knowledge comes from reading info and watching streams as I'm going to be playing on PC, so no hands on beta-
From a higher level gameplay standpoint I think it's fine. From what I understand it serves as a second option in a post GI state and like GI is hard countered by guard break moves (of which there are many more, and I believe everyone has one an A+B). Yes the animation is long and the mixup a little obvious, but I think it's weighted fairly with some unique interactions (some characters able to cancel, unblockable on full charge with damage, aggressors advantage, timing it on multihit strings, etc). I don't think it'll be super common at intermediate level play and above (maybe a few times a match), and should mostly be a good thing (it's hard to know for sure with everyone having such unique options out of it). Don't forget whiffing costs you a shit ton of guardbar
As for online, it's a pre launch weekend beta with no movelist and no explanation. Yes people will spam it a bit to start, whatever. Once people start using guardbreaks, step and other mechanics it'll stop quickly. My only potential issue is its interaction with oki, and the ability to (maybe) do it from a grounded state.
RPS critiques- it's literally a post GI mixup for casuals. Almost every interaction in a fighting game is weighted RPS mixed with reaction time. This eliminates the second part and shows casuals how it works. This is functionally barely any different than being + on block except for the training wheels limiting your options (and even then you've still got A/B/K/G/Dodge represented).
From a casual standpoint, it's brilliant as long as it's not too spammed. My only concern is the penalty for spamming it isn't obvious enough so that new palyers don't just spam it and get angry when they're destroyed. If they convey the mechanic well I think it'll help to draw more casuals in with minimal impact on serious play (and mostly for the better).
As with all things balance is a concern, but if its balanced poorly then hopefully it'll be tweaked in patches (something just about every SC game could use), and if it brings in enough casuals to start that's a hell of a lot more likely. Frankly i'm just happy to see a fun and aggressive SC game for the first time in ages. My only concerns are on the business practice sides.
From a higher level gameplay standpoint I think it's fine. From what I understand it serves as a second option in a post GI state and like GI is hard countered by guard break moves (of which there are many more, and I believe everyone has one an A+B). Yes the animation is long and the mixup a little obvious, but I think it's weighted fairly with some unique interactions (some characters able to cancel, unblockable on full charge with damage, aggressors advantage, timing it on multihit strings, etc). I don't think it'll be super common at intermediate level play and above (maybe a few times a match), and should mostly be a good thing (it's hard to know for sure with everyone having such unique options out of it). Don't forget whiffing costs you a shit ton of guardbar
As for online, it's a pre launch weekend beta with no movelist and no explanation. Yes people will spam it a bit to start, whatever. Once people start using guardbreaks, step and other mechanics it'll stop quickly. My only potential issue is its interaction with oki, and the ability to (maybe) do it from a grounded state.
RPS critiques- it's literally a post GI mixup for casuals. Almost every interaction in a fighting game is weighted RPS mixed with reaction time. This eliminates the second part and shows casuals how it works. This is functionally barely any different than being + on block except for the training wheels limiting your options (and even then you've still got A/B/K/G/Dodge represented).
From a casual standpoint, it's brilliant as long as it's not too spammed. My only concern is the penalty for spamming it isn't obvious enough so that new palyers don't just spam it and get angry when they're destroyed. If they convey the mechanic well I think it'll help to draw more casuals in with minimal impact on serious play (and mostly for the better).
As with all things balance is a concern, but if its balanced poorly then hopefully it'll be tweaked in patches (something just about every SC game could use), and if it brings in enough casuals to start that's a hell of a lot more likely. Frankly i'm just happy to see a fun and aggressive SC game for the first time in ages. My only concerns are on the business practice sides.
SomeRandomHuman
[13] Hero
Making a guard meter into an actual meter under health bar (instead of just glowing health bar indicating its state) could work as a much better indication of a price for RE.
Also making the price irrecoverable, no matter whether RE is successful or not.
Lord Ozram
[01] Neophyte
After trying it in the beta I must say Its a mechanic meant to be used but not spammed. I like it because there are plenty of tricks to use it and to counter it. For example you can use it after you GI so it counters both reGI and the fast attacks that want to stop your Guard Break attack (2 of the main options after get GIed).