Astaroth Offical General Discussion

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[09] Warrior
Is there a point to the armored crouch throws? Since most lows end in crouch and lows break armor, are we usually just going for the basic armor throw?
Two main scenarios being if an opponent hits you m and recovers with enough time to duck and if you use it to get in and they let you stomp up to them.
 

CaliJared

[09] Warrior
Whoever's idea it was to give Ivy a half screen throw that sends her opponent full screen,, and then a half screen mid that lethal hits on crouching foes, should be fired immediately.

Does anyone have a good game plan when fighting an Ivy? I played a guy who only did the throw, mid, or the 66[A] for a lethal hit if I tried to step. It's pretty difficult to deal with, especially since I feel like she out-ranges him and out-speeds him as well.
 

SatanaXXX

[09] Warrior
It's a very bad matchup. You have to outsmart Ivy and get close only when you have a pretty safe throw attempt. Bullrush on the tip (or you always get easilly stepped) and then play the midrange game with 6A, 44A and looking for fissures to sneak in big damage. Never leave an unsafe move unpunished, or she will abuse you to death shit like 214B etc etc.
 

SatanaXXX

[09] Warrior
A+B LH vs. GI/RE is pretty tasty. I believe the best followup is 22_88B for about half a health bar. Big commitment though due to the slow-ass startup and bad tracking, so it's only good on a solid read.

66A+B I've been experimenting with using occasionally if they've been conditioned to expect other moves at range, and if their back is to the wall/ledge, It's pretty so-so, but when it works it works.
Tried to use it to punish monkeys who spam Ivy's CE on wakeup, but it doesn't work, it's too slow. You get hit by the CE before A+B hits, and if they are looking they see A+B and don't activate the CE.
Much better 4 (B).
 

Sebo

[01] Neophyte
I haven't read every comment in this section, but I learned some cool things about 44/66A+G.

If you're baiting a CE: X, Azzwell, Cervy, Tira, Groh, Raph, Geralt, Soph, Seig, Maxi, Mina, Talim, and NM's (the non-unblockable one), your armor throw will tank through if you do the throw right before they activate CE. Now what's really cool is, that against Taki, you can even input the armor throw after the start of the CE and grab through that anime shit.

Useful? Probably not very, but it's demoralizing as fuck. Escapable? Yeah, but they burn meter only at the cost of a sliver of health.
 

Sebo

[01] Neophyte
Oh, and something else I found out while messing around online and in dojo:

RE K is a shakeable stun. When the opponent doesn't know that, it's a free attempt for a crouch throw (extra damaging in SC). The opponent can block K and stand up to avoid the low throw by standing if they struggle... but this opens up a standing throw mixup/almost whatever you what and/or predict what comes next. That's probably 10ish frames for you to play with.

Also, if the opponent doesn't hold +[K] and does it as B+K it's a LH setup for 22B.

*sorry if this shit is posted elsewhere
 
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CaliJared

[09] Warrior
You mean it's an shakeable on block with the break attack version? Or if you hit them with the K? I didn't know that, that's really strange. I wonder what other stuns are like that in the game.
 

Sebo

[01] Neophyte
I'm pretty sure its only on hit. The stun reminds me of SCIII Kilik's WRB.

--edit after some more scrub testing on myself and only verses Asta--

On block RE K forces crouch. If you do low throw afterwards it sometimes works when beating out WR attacks (depends on the attack's hitbox) but if they just guard they'll just be standing.

Test out more shit, I love playing this guy, he's the only thing I like about this not being SCII.
 
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Sebo

[01] Neophyte
Whoever's idea it was to give Ivy a half screen throw that sends her opponent full screen,, and then a half screen mid that lethal hits on crouching foes, should be fired immediately.

Does anyone have a good game plan when fighting an Ivy? I played a guy who only did the throw, mid, or the 66[A] for a lethal hit if I tried to step. It's pretty difficult to deal with, especially since I feel like she out-ranges him and out-speeds him as well.
For long range 9B+K. It shuts down the majority if her max distance and puts you in your range. There are other attacks that beat 9B+K but when she uses them that when you press forward.

For mid range against her low throw or mid mix up, 8A+G or 9B+K will hit.

This isn't 100% a reliable tactic but it let's the Ivy player know you too can do shit from far away. But even still Ivy is dumb and people who play her don't deserve respect. They should be forced to hold their breath in tournaments or they autolose.
 

CaliJared

[09] Warrior
For long range 9B+K. It shuts down the majority if her max distance and puts you in your range. There are other attacks that beat 9B+K but when she uses them that when you press forward.

For mid range against her low throw or mid mix up, 8A+G or 9B+K will hit.

This isn't 100% a reliable tactic but it let's the Ivy player know you too can do shit from far away. But even still Ivy is dumb and people who play her don't deserve respect. They should be forced to hold their breath in tournaments or they autolose.
8A+G is a good idea. I always forget to use that at range and only really use it for tech traps or certain punishes. Good thinking. I’ll give it a shot.

I’ve also been doing 9B+K, but it’s so risky I feel. But I have noticed that it will beat a lot of her mid range stuff. It’ll also jump over her mid horizontal unblockable if she tries to go for that.
 

Malec

[09] Warrior
Ok so what exactly is the point of his revenge attacks when it gets beaten by RE, lows, multi hitting attacks and I also think guard break moves? I mean wtf
 

Sebo

[01] Neophyte
Ok so what exactly is the point of his revenge attacks when it gets beaten by RE, lows, multi hitting attacks and I also think guard break moves? I mean wtf
You're just gonna have to use them "smarter" because Astaroth players have to right now. A lot of things aren't RE and lows...

But really, (mostly as a VF player) the design choices made by Namco baffle me. Just pick Sig, NM, Ivy, and you can reduce stress and relax that brain.
 

Malec

[09] Warrior
You're just gonna have to use them "smarter" because Astaroth players have to right now. A lot of things aren't RE and lows...

But really, (mostly as a VF player) the design choices made by Namco baffle me. Just pick Sig, NM, Ivy, and you can reduce stress and relax that brain.
I haven't played Asta in 6 so far, so no stress level, but I am interested in this character, I like big characters. Revenge attacks seem to be astaroths thing, but imo it's lackluster
 

Malec

[09] Warrior
Ok I just started to play Astaroth the last couple of days and was thinking he isn't as bad as it sounds like in here, but yeah I see more and more where you guys are coming from.

-RE is useless with this speed
-22_88B whiffing close range, when I guessed right and stepped something and not only vs small female chars but just in general
-no blockpunish at all, at 20frames we get BB6 for 36 damage?... I try to "punish" with a throw attempt most of the time and get GI'ed or ducked for it
-people ducking in my face all the time or rolling on the floor just not to get thrown.
-getting pressured and have no way out of it at all, as mentioned RE is useless and our fastest 14f 4AA/AB (high) not being NCC is ridiculous
-our anti stepping tools like 6A+B, 3A and 44[A] have no reward

So everyone can bully Astaroth with pretty much everything they want to, because he not only can't punish unsafe stuff, but also can't interrupt it. He is to linear and stepping vs Astaroth has no meaningful consequences. On the other hand when we step something, our go to 22_88B whiffing left and right. That leaves Astaroth with his throw game which are only attempts and can be broken, GI'ed, ducked and the reward for guessing right/wrong is pretty much the same for Asta and the opponent.
 

Malec

[09] Warrior
Can someone explain to me HOW THE FUCK I am getting hit by a throw using 2A?!
I don't know whats up, it works in practice mode, but I was thrown a couple of times now while I was using 2A to land the final blow.
 
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CaliJared

[09] Warrior
I have a lot of trouble with that too. But if you happen to guess right on his head towards 66 or A, you can get a free low throw attempt. Guessing right on the block is the hard part though. You can also try to RE, but be careful since it’s a bit slow, but it could work out for you.
 

Malec

[09] Warrior
I have a lot of trouble with that too. But if you happen to guess right on his head towards 66 or A, you can get a free low throw attempt. Guessing right on the block is the hard part though. You can also try to RE, but be careful since it’s a bit slow, but it could work out for you.
Wow that's great, thx