BAN VIOLA INFINITE?

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Real_Bojack said:
No, you're missing the point. I don't personally care if they leave the infinite in and legal and every Viola gets a free round off a back throw. I can also handle Viola's bullshit. I'm saying that basically she's full of everything a character shouldn't have. If we allow everything people will complain and get salty whenever a Viola wins regardless of the player or tricks. Then we get the bandwagon problem where there're people who want her banned vs. those who don't want her banned and as of now I feel that leaving her in will be long term detrimental to the game/scene because this isn't Marvel. IIRC back in SC3 the endless arguing over allowing guest characters or VC or sisters caused a heap of damage to the game and its community.

This has nothing to do with not me not being able to handle Viola. I get butt fucked by Yoshi's helicopter stance because I'm dumb and slow. I'm not asking for Yoshi to be banned. Namco might also fix her with further patching and then I won't have any issues.

As of now, don't ban her infinite. Ban Viola.
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I think the general consensus is that Viola does NOT have anything broken per-say. She has weaknesses just like any other charcater. Shes NOT unbeatable, shes NOT broken, just just has a never ending throw.

Viola doesnt need a ban as a character. Lord knows I hate that bitch to. Just limit her infinite to a couple of times per round and problem solved. Youd be asking for a big heap of trouble if you banned the whole character.

I think EVO is gonna bring out some things that most of us have yet to see. Lets get past EVO and see if anything broken pops up then.
 
Real_Bojack said:
No, you're missing the point. I don't personally care if they leave the infinite in and legal and every Viola gets a free round off a back throw. I can also handle Viola's bullshit. I'm saying that basically she's full of everything a character shouldn't have. If we allow everything people will complain and get salty whenever a Viola wins regardless of the player or tricks. Then we get the bandwagon problem where there're people who want her banned vs. those who don't want her banned and as of now I feel that leaving her in will be long term detrimental to the game/scene because this isn't Marvel. IIRC back in SC3 the endless arguing over allowing guest characters or VC or sisters caused a heap of damage to the game and its community.
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This is no different than all the scrubs that cry foul about Nightmare, Astaroth, or whatever character they can't handle. The reasoning behind your suggestion is literally "I said so": just lke all the scrubs saying Nightmare is OP or whatever. Yes, Viola could certainly stand to have a thing or two patched. No, she shouldn't be banned. "This isn't Marvel." Of course not, but that doesn't make your suggestion of banning a character more viable. Provide something more solid than hyperbole to back your argument and people(including myself) may be more inclined to agree with it. That doesn't mean anyone will of course, but you get the idea.

And lastly: people whining is not a good reason to do something most of the time. Most whining is bullshit based in a lack of understanding and unwillingness to change or accept things how they are. There will always be people whining, heeding their every childish whim accomplishes nothing but making things worse.
 
Where have I ever said I couldn't handle her shit? I'm saying ban her to avoid community infighting and hassle. It's horseshit to say "Pick this character....... but don't let us see you doing X move or Y tactic" either allow it (gonna piss people off) or ban Viola entirely (also gonna piss people off but I doubt to the same extent).

Basically don't pussyfoot around the issue. I feel either allowing the infinite or banning just the infinite will be more detrimental to the overall game than banning Viola. Please read what I'm saying right now. Don't read what you think I'm saying, read what I'm actually saying. I don't care that she's not broke or that she's beatable etc. etc. etc. responding to that is missing the point.
 
Fair enough. I maintain my disagreement though :P

I don't think it's going to be too hard to task someone with not using an infinite or to have a patch address the issue. It just seems going overboard to outright ban a character over one or two niche things to me.
 
Ideally, yes. Namco fixes the issue. Till then we might as well just skip out on her and avoid the hassle.

Because realistically, the back throw infinite doesn't break her either. It doesn't make her unbeatable. So we might as well as of now allow full bore infinite if one wants to take that route. She gets a back throw then that's all she wrote......shouldn't have let her get behind you.
 
My 2 cents: Ban the infinite not the character. Nothing is wrong with her except her crazy damage but even that can be worked around. Nothing broken about her or anything minus the infinite. If people are bandwagoning her, so be it. That's their choice, they can play who they want to play just like you play who you want to play. I bet if Raphael was a top tier character there would be flocks of people playing him. Would you all complain about that?
 
Here's the deal, as I mentioned before-
She's not broken. She's completely beatable. Banning a character because you don't like her CE, a superior RO game, you don't like her, or her janky hitbox, aren't suitable grounds for a ban.

You're not pussyfooting by banning an infinite. From talking to multiple players, no one really wants her banned- some don't even mind the back grab infinite. However, it's still an infinite, and should definitely be addressed. Pussyfooting would be adding a cap of reps. Ban the infinite, and call it a day.

I personally haven't seen any competitive player complain that Viola has won. If you look back, when was the last time Viola took 1st place? she's been steady in second place; proving that players/ other character's have proven better.

Your attempts to make a full on ban towards Viola won't make any progress. However, the banning of an infinite (on grounds of... it's an infinite) has actually proven pretty successful. Facts remain, her tools have/are beatable. Her infinite, you can't do anything about (unless you're Astaroth, Voldo, ZWEI). The answer should be obvious on which should take the ban hammer: Viola, or Viola's back grab infinite.

Also, I can name 5 Viola's off the top of my head, who go out, pay money, and compete. Only one of them opts to use the infinite, and the other's opt to get their free 3B. If one Viola throws a bitch fit that he can't beat said player's without the use of an infinite, something you can't do anything about, then he should go play a different game.

Banning Viola is the easy way out- as I said, learn how to beat her; which is very possible.
 
Are there XBL achievements for point missing?

Fuck it then, allow Viola and the infinite since it doesn't make her unbeatable. Just learn not to get back thrown and you're good to go right? No bans on nothin'.
 
Saying stuff like not getting back thrown is just laughable...sorry thats like saying just step and avoid Pat's 66B Which u will not do all the time...viola can easily step one of your attacks and go for a back throw...Hell any char can backthrow you does not matter whether you're paying attention or not. That being said to me it seems more likely the backthrow infinite probably will get "fixed" after EVO since EVO is only a couple of days from now.
 
Real_Bojack said:
Are there XBL achievements for point missing?

Fuck it then, allow Viola and the infinite since it doesn't make her unbeatable. Just learn not to get back thrown and you're good to go right? No bans on nothin'.
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You're the one missing the point. HER TOOLS ARE NOT BROKEN; INFINITES ARE BROKEN.
 
Xeph said:
You're the one missing the point. HER TOOLS ARE NOT BROKEN; INFINITES ARE BROKEN.
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Le sigh..... here goes. My last post on this,

Infinites being broken is an opinion. Especially tricky ones to pull of that are fairly situational like Viola BT throw infinite. Therefore, we're left with 3 options.

1. Allow full Viola including any and all variations of infinites.
2. Attempt soft bans or bans on certain things.
3. Ban Viola entirely.

1 and 3 are very black and white. 2 has soooooooo much gray area. Two reps too much? What if she needs 4 reps to carry to RO? That's unacceptable? What about infinite for half life into corner to wall splat finishing combo? If some one does two back throws then what? They forfeit the round? Forfeit the match? Get DQed? A touch of death combo from half ring with Viola due to RO carry A.O.K. but BT throw infinite too much to handle? How do we enforce tourney consistency? How then do we avoid the slippery slope problems associated with soft bans on certain things? The SF community didn't say "Ok, you can use ST Akuma just don't throw too many/any air fireballs" they just decided the character was bad news and banned accordingly.

We should do the same with Viola. I actually say we ban her first, allow full infinite second, attempt to ban infinite a VERY distant third. Honestly, I'm more ok with allowing the infinite then trying to ban it alone. I think banning Viola entirely until/if Namco fixes it would be best for the game's livelyhood.

Notice I didn't gripe once about my "not being able to handle Viola cuz she's too off the chains bananas strong". I understand she is not "broken" w/ or w/o the infinite.
 
There's no gray area here. EVERYONE agrees infinites are retarded and should be banned. Ban the throw chaining into itself period, problem solved. The small situational gains Viola could have from repeating it a limited number of times isn't worth the bitching that would inevitably come from its use or what she gains from other guaranteed followups, so simply banning chaining of the attack itself is the easy solution with no feathers ruffled(save for one or two pricks that may try to make use out of the infinite: but they're too pathetic to listen to) and no reliance on Bamco to release a fourth patch to fix it.

Really, there's no gray area at all. It's pretty cut and dry. No banned characters, no bullshit, everyone wins. How is that disagreeable?
 
Revin122 said:
didn't the french ban algol in SC4 just because of his character design?
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No, that was the Star Wars characters. To my knowledge Algol was banned because of infinites. And I think the obvious answer is to ban the infinite. Viola is definitely annoying as hell and really good, but as others have said not broken by any stretch.
 
Real_Bojack said:
I read all your posts mang.
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Pretty sure it's you missing the point. Black and white solutions are almost never the answer in a case like this. This is a situation where an infinite is built off of a tool that's situational, and grants decent damage already - her character doesn't suffer if we all say, "you cannot chain back grab into a second back grab." She still gets a free combo with enough push to ringout a reasonable distance. I don't believe there's a single Viola out there who would say anything along the lines of, "WHAT? YOU BANNED MY BACKGRAB CHAIN, I QUIT SCV, MY CHARACTER SUCKS." And if they did, they'd probably be publicly ridiculed by the rest.

In other words, there's no grey area here. If you can't chain back grab into another back grab, Viola as a character doesn't suffer, and people who travel that play Viola also don't suffer. The rule isn't confusing, and there's nothing that will come up situationally.

Now if you guys want to really complain about stuff Viola has, it should be the fact that post damage buff - she has a few ways to gain a ToD combo from mid screen.
 
Silent_Joel said:
Lol @ actually discussing to ban an infinite. Wasn't Yoda allowed in your tourneys too? I remember when SC used to have actual weapon fighting styles, now characters have projectile balls and betroots :-(
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*Deep wannabe exaggerated bad ass voice* Soul of Duty... Five...
 
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