Cassandra Changes For Sc5

SCPartisan

SCPartisan

Holy Moly
Figured I would make this as they are starting to pop up in the other SA's.

I'll start with some of my personal requests:

- Realignment after an off axis 236(B) to prevent botched combos (2nd 236(B) will whiff in this situation)
- WR A to not randomly whiff
- This to be fixed:
- Moves like 4K, 3K, and 6K to be given a purpose or revamp them all together.
- 1K to not whiff on certain characters (Lizardman, and maybe Cervy in some cases)
- JF 236:B could be different than the regular version.
- FC K and 2K are different speeds, and while it's no big deal they might as well be the same unless they have some other difference.
- Better anti-step would be nice.

But that's just me!

DISCUSS.
 
6K is actually a really good move. You can punish a lot of whiffs with it that you couldn't with 236B and 6B.

Anyway, odds are SC5 will bring a good amount of changes to the way she plays. So I don't know if it's really viable to talk about what we want in relation to how she is now. Lol.
 
6K is her longest range mid attack. Its the only way to punish some moves, when 236 doesn't have enough range. Its also one of the only ways to get in on a keep-away Siegfried. And it leads to a nice tech trap with 236B / crouch throws.

As for changes I'd like to see:
-No more randomly whiffing WR A's, 1K's, 236 2B8BAA's, and other such bugs
-236 to not push back more on a counter-hit than a normal-hit, making it actually worse as you can't then go into 2B8BAA (though you really generally only get 236 CH's in lag when the punish was too slow and they attacked at disadvantage anyways...)
-236:B to do a bit more damage or knockback or something. Or just scrap it altogether.
-236A:B (as seen in BD) to do something useful, or just scrap it altogether.
-Keep 4BB:A a natural combo (wasn't in BD)
-4A+K auto-gi not to whiff against long range horizontals, make it always hit like 4B+K auto-gi
-Make the auto-gi on 214 start earlier or something, that whole line of moves is essentially useless
-4K sped up somewhat to actually be useful (would be great if it wasn't so slow)
-Quake stun to consistently be either +12 or +13 and not fluctuating between them.
-Would be nice to have at least one mid that hits grounded that is +frames on hit
-Wasn't 3A and 2B safe on block in SC3? Trying to remember again.
-A low that actually makes people afraid, all of them are basically just pokes or reactable and unsafe...

Her lack of really good horizontals /anti-step moves is an intentional weakness. By giving her some good ones, you'd be taking away one of her few glaring weaknesses. Depends on how good step is in SC5 in general I guess.

But really, as long as they keep the same general playstyle with her going, I'll be happy.
 
A good low (Cass+good low might be too much...)
BB delay back
crouch dash cancel
A+B to be more consistent

Honestly, I don't care what they do as long as she's fun to play still, but these particular changes over the different versions seem to have taken more fun out of her game play than anything, and would be happy to see them back.
 
I think she's perfect the way she is, minus the random whiffs and such. 4K is delayed a bit but I like it that way because it's a perfect move to mix up after GI, and then you can build nice damage off it since it's a standing stun. I would love if Seraphim kicks would combo on non-counter though.
 
Make 236B -18 on block, and 236:B -14 on block. Make the just frame version a frame faster (i15). Also make the JF harder to execute, like Sophie's 236:B. This will make the move more useful outside of combos if your able to JF. If not, you get punished big for trying. IDK .. crazy idea.

I also think ( like Zombiebear) that 214 should be longer/ start sooner.
 
Her 214 stance is fine, I like the way 214{B} and 214B work in her stance options... But with 236{B} I have a radical change that could balance her out or possibly make her better... First 236{B}should be changed to 236B, getting rid of the hold command would make this attack more reliable and getting rid of the just frame means you don't have to worry about getting it in combos (even though I understand how easy it is to do) just remeber this is a nerf, somewhat... The properties of 236{B} should be changed to the just frame versions, which means on CH you get a launch and on normal hit you get a stun, but I believe that this attack shouldn't juggle anymore, so it would balance out the combo potential of this move with the difficulty in its execution... The new 236B should remain at i16 but only if its made safer to throw out, I would like it around -12 or -14 on grd (-12 doesn't sound bad), this move would become more reliable than 2B+K in this sense...

So the new 236B is the just frame version of 236{B}, but safer, and can't maintain it's rediculous juggling potential, so you're probably wondering about 236:B... The new 236:B will be the same as the original, but now the only way to execute it is by getting the just input... So it becomes more crucial to execute correctly for punishment... 236:B should be i14 all the time, and like senzait proposed, should be about -18 or less on grd... As punishment, I belive the damage should be increased, and on KND should hit them closer to Cass so she can get a tech mixup like she should in the first place...

My reasoning behind this, is I don't like the fact that the just versions of these attacks are meh, and rearranging the inputs and properties would make punishing with her a bit more solid... Now if you mess up 236:B for punishment, you have a semi-safe 236B to fall back on, which means you don't get in your damage (hey, you did mess up) but you do get a safe attack and some SCD to boot... 236:B will be able to punish all -14 on grd. attacks and deliver a tech trap mixup on wake-up... The new 236B can be used as a poke, and while hindering its combo potential in juggles, will simplify them, and reward Cass with a reliable combo starter... The properties of 214{B} and 214B should stay the same, but this time around I believe, 214B (fast hit) should be completly safe at around -10 on grd, so its a safe poke from her backstep however unlike the new 236:B, this version should hit them out of reach from her tech traps, or just not give any tech traps alltogether... 214{B} should be changed only so that it gives the same stun on hit and counter hit, this would make it a garaunteed followup to the 214 auto-GI, and give a combo opportunity for getting the GI... The new combo would be: 214{IMP}{B}, 236B, 66A+B, 4BB:A...
 
She needs very little to be functional.

WR A whiff issues fixed.

Step Problems

AA should give +6 instead of +5, believe it or not, with this one frame difference, Step owns her that much less hard.
66A needs to beat step cleanly.
7A+B,K should be natural combo.
Remove stun from 3A,K but make it safe on block.

These will take care of her step issues without her being overpowered. I'd say pick and choose one or two of these. I'd take the first one and the last one.

Frame Stupidity/Pointlessness

236:B ought to DO something. Maybe like, +5 damage or whatever.
The unsafety frames on 236B and 236(B) are backwards. 236(B) is the one that ought to be launcher punishable.

6K,3K,4K,44K need to be removed or re-purposed. These are all terrible, terrible moves.

Aesthetics

Less stupid "ass based fetish" in her design..
66K is cool.
44B+K has cool tech trap catches, but looks fucking retarded.

Don't (Continue to) make her into a joke character, please.

Wishlist

These are not things I need to see; but would like to.

4BB:A ought to catch rollers. All rollers, all characters. Why? Because Cass is HELPLESS when her opponent is on the ground. Rolling is terribly effective against her, and her best option is 2K or 1B. Even if you KNOW your opponent is going to play dead or roll on the ground, 236B can get "quick stand blocked" because of the way the oki system works, and you get RAPED.

If this is too much, she ought to have better frames on some grounded hitting attacks, or an attack purposed to hit grounded opponents.

-Idle
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
Her 214 stance is fine, I like the way 214{B} and 214B work in her stance options... But with 236{B} I have a radical change that could balance her out or possibly make her better... First 236{B}should be changed to 236B, getting rid of the hold command would make this attack more reliable and getting rid of the just frame means you don't have to worry about getting it in combos (even though I understand how easy it is to do) just remeber this is a nerf, somewhat... The properties of 236{B} should be changed to the just frame versions, which means on CH you get a launch and on normal hit you get a stun, but I believe that this attack shouldn't juggle anymore, so it would balance out the combo potential of this move with the difficulty in its execution... The new 236B should remain at i16 but only if its made safer to throw out, I would like it around -12 or -14 on grd (-12 doesn't sound bad), this move would become more reliable than 2B+K in this sense...

So the new 236B is the just frame version of 236{B}, but safer, and can't maintain it's rediculous juggling potential, so you're probably wondering about 236:B... The new 236:B will be the same as the original, but now the only way to execute it is by getting the just input... So it becomes more crucial to execute correctly for punishment... 236:B should be i14 all the time, and like senzait proposed, should be about -18 or less on grd... As punishment, I belive the damage should be increased, and on KND should hit them closer to Cass so she can get a tech mixup like she should in the first place...

My reasoning behind this, is I don't like the fact that the just versions of these attacks are meh, and rearranging the inputs and properties would make punishing with her a bit more solid... Now if you mess up 236:B for punishment, you have a semi-safe 236B to fall back on, which means you don't get in your damage (hey, you did mess up) but you do get a safe attack and some SCD to boot... 236:B will be able to punish all -14 on grd. attacks and deliver a tech trap mixup on wake-up... The new 236B can be used as a poke, and while hindering its combo potential in juggles, will simplify them, and reward Cass with a reliable combo starter... The properties of 214{B} and 214B should stay the same, but this time around I believe, 214B (fast hit) should be completly safe at around -10 on grd, so its a safe poke from her backstep however unlike the new 236:B, this version should hit them out of reach from her tech traps, or just not give any tech traps alltogether... 214{B} should be changed only so that it gives the same stun on hit and counter hit, this would make it a garaunteed followup to the 214 auto-GI, and give a combo opportunity for getting the GI... The new combo would be: 214{IMP}{B}, 236B, 66A+B, 4BB:A...
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good change to SC5 Cassie.:D
 
Well if she stays I'd like to see 236:AB, 236:K and a quake stun after 8KB (just like her 8[B+K]).
I definitely don't want them to remove 66 A+B or 4BB:A...
 
11th_dimension said:
Well if she stays I'd like to see 236:AB, 236:K and a quake stun after 8KB (just like her 8[B+K]).
I definitely don't want them to remove 66 A+B or 4BB:A...
Click to expand...

What would you suggest as the properties for adding in these new just frames? More damage? Frame advantage on 236:K instead of being neutral? 236:AB was pointless in Broken Destiny from what I gather (the JF properties didn't lead to anything useful or there were better moves that you could do instead like 236:B that lead to more damage).

8KB as it currently stands in SC4 is useless, the B part will either be dodged or you'll get hit out of it. The quake stun would discourage dodging it I suppose and require interrupting it instead (or suffer quake stun frame disadvantage).
I want to see an unblockable version of 66A+B return with meter usage, like her old soul charge unblockable :)
 
andur said:
What would you suggest as the properties for adding in these new just frames? More damage? Frame advantage on 236:K instead of being neutral? 236:AB was pointless in Broken Destiny from what I gather (the JF properties didn't lead to anything useful or there were better moves that you could do instead like 236:B that lead to more damage).
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Actually I was thinking for more damage and speed for both of those moves. Also if they could have guard break properties, it would be cool imo... And to be honest I really like her JF moves :)

andur said:
8KB as it currently stands in SC4 is useless, the B part will either be dodged or you'll get hit out of it. The quake stun would discourage dodging it I suppose and require interrupting it instead (or suffer quake stun frame disadvantage).
I want to see an unblockable version of 66A+B return with meter usage, like her old soul charge unblockable :)
Click to expand...
That's why it should be given a quake stun. Everybody is getting out of this move and it is quite strange to see an unblockable that hits the ground not to cause something like a small quake... Maybe I'm just used to 8[B+K]'s properties :)
 
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