Cassandras Frame Data

Cassy's Step~G is -11 at the least...
Cassy's Step into Attack is -4 at the least...
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This is what I got for her speeds:
i13 - A/ FC 2A/ K/ 2A+G*2B+G
i14 - 6A/ 2A/ FC 236B
i15 - BT A/ B/ 2K/ FC 2K/ BT K/ BT B+K/ 236B
i16 - BT 2A/ 6B/ 2B/ 1B/ FC 2B/ 236{B}
i17 - 3A/ 4B/ BT B/ 3K/ 2B+K/ 4B+K/ A+G*B+G
i18 - WR A/ FC 3B/ BT 2B/ 6K/ JMP K/ 66A/ 66K/ 33K/ 236A
i19 - 3B/ BT 2K
i20 - 4A/ 22B/ 66A+B
i21 - 1K/ WR K
i22 - 4K/ 4A+K/ 22A/ 88A/ 66B
i23 - JMP B
i24 - JMP A/ 44B
i25 - WR B/ A+B/ 8A+K/ 44A
i26 - FC 1B/ 8A+B/ B+K/ 66B+K/ 44B+K
i27 - 1A/ 22K
i28 - 44K
i29 - 33B/ 22B+K
i34 - 236K
i37 - 8B+K
i38 - WR {A}/ 22{B}
i59 - 4A(B)(2nd hit only, first hit whiff)
i60 - 8{B+K}
i?? - 44bA/ RUN K
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And, I got these IMP windows:
4A(IMP)B (on whiff) - {37-58}
4A(IMP)B (grd 1st hit) - {0-15}
FC 3B - {10-17}
4B+K - {6-11}
4A+K - {6-11}
236G - {4-13}
214G - {13-21}
 
@Laser:
I redid the post, and to get i29, simply put, after her 2A+G she is at +12, and after testing the i16~i18 range with several characters, I got i17 clashes consistently, so i17 + 12 is i29, if you'd like you can try it to be sure just make sure everything is spot on... For her step I simply did B~step with Cass vs. Cass, again making sure its spot on stepping, with me as P1 Cass i did 66A after grd'ing B(-6) it got blocked, then I tried 3A and it hit, so i17 - 6 is 11 frames... Next I did about the same thing but recorded Step~Attack as fast and accurate as possible, this time getting hit by CH B(+0), her AA (my choice attack after stepping) calshes with 3A and Throw, beating 6K and 66A, my 6B winning out AA, meaing i17 - i13 is -4 for Step~Attack... I did test this several times getting the same results...
 
Not realizing some of this was already in the first post here, I did some tests on TC/TJ and IMP and put them in the wiki. While they largely agree with what is listed here, I did not include some moves which are listed here, I did include some moves which aren't and a couple of my findings are different. The main differences I have are that 4K does not TC on frame 22(it trades with highs), that 66A begins to TC at frame 7 instead of 6 and doesn't end before it hits. I have not rechecked these results since reading this thread.

/Edit/ 66A does in fact stop TCing at frame 14. However it does not TC at frame 6(Sophie NH 9K(+7) > 6A(i13) and A+G(+6) > AA(i12) both hit)

Also while I am here, ZB is right and 2A+G is +12 on hit (2A+G(?) > 66B+K(i26) vs. Sophie AS B (i14) trade), first post should be fixed accordingly.
Also 214 does not GI at frame 13 (Sophie 9B(+3) > 1B(i16) results in NH)
Also 4B only TCs from 7-10(blocked 66A(-11) > 4B vs. throw, throw lands and Sophie A+G(+6) > throw(i17), throw lands). It does however have a lowered hitbox in the listed 6-13 region which will make some highs whiff
 
For the last of her shakable stuns, I tested 66K CH out. For my test, I was Siegfried and went into base hold to be counter hit by the 66K. I was able to trade Siegfried WR K (i15) with Cass 8B (i23) but could not manage to trade WR K with Cass 4K (i22), so I'm pretty sure 66K is +8 on CH when shaken.

66[K] CH is trickier, as it leaves Cass BT, and all of her BT moves are fast enough that I couldn't do anything about them other than block, I could regular GI 66[K] BT B+K. But I strongly suspect its +8 on CH as well when shaken.
 
I know it may sound noobish, but how do you make out all those frame datas? All of those numbers? What exactly do u do? Can I make out some frames on my own? And how?
 
11th_dimension said:
I know it may sound noobish, but how do you make out all those frame datas? All of those numbers? What exactly do u do? Can I make out some frames on my own? And how?
Click to expand...

There's more thorough explanations of this out there, but, the general idea is as follows:
Each move hits a certain number of frames after you input its motion, something like Cass 6B is i16, so it hits 16 frames after you hit 6B. The frames on block/hit/counter hit is the difference in how fast you recover from the move compared to your opponent. 6B is for example -8 on block, so you recover 8 frames slower than your opponent, which moves if they block your 6B and you do another 6B immediately, they can interrupt you with an move that is i23 or faster.

To test this stuff, go into training mode and record the training dummy doing the move you want to test. So if you want to test the frames of Cass 236B on block, record the training dummy doing 236B and holding guard for a while afterwards. Then play it back, block the 236B and try to hit it before it can block, try the fastest moves and work on upwards by moves that are 1 frame slower, eventually you'll find that an i19 move will work but an i20 move will always be blocked. You have to make sure everything you record is gapless and the fastest possible inputs, and try a lot of times, as it might be very difficult to input your i19 punish fast enough (if you can't, you might incorrectly conclude it was -18 on block).

If you look at the last bunch of posts in this thread, they break down what we did to test those frames.

The frames of the game are all pretty much known now. Practice by verifying the results that are already known, and you should get an idea for it.
 
Thank you very much! I'll try that and see what I can do!
EDIT: Wait... Is counting the frames like guessing? I mean SC4 is on 60 FPS, so the moves are executed in a very quick rate (less than 1 sec). So all we have to do is find the frames approximately, which means that we cannot be accurate? Please tell me if I'm wrong...
 
11th_dimension said:
Thank you very much! I'll try that and see what I can do!
EDIT: Wait... Is counting the frames like guessing? I mean SC4 is on 60 FPS, so the moves are executed in a very quick rate (less than 1 sec). So all we have to do is find the frames approximately, which means that we cannot be accurate? Please tell me if I'm wrong...
Click to expand...

There's no guessing involved, you can find the frames exactly. If you really want to get down to it, you can just capture video and count the number of frames to impact from that. Advantage/disadvantage can be found by systematically trying moves of different speeds to eventually find stuff that clashes and thus you can determine the advantage/disadvantage frames from that.
 
There are some bizarre problems that can arise when you try to find the data without a capture device though. A few common ones are that moves can hit at different times depending on distance, some moves especially horizontals can weapon clash with each other slightly off-time from when they would hit and also some moves which strike downward will hit late on a person who is tech crouching or ducking. Generally speaking though as already mentioned, you can find the exact numbers, you just have to be systematic in the process.
 
There's an error in the frame data that is interesting. 66{K} is only -10 on block not -12. Taki's i10 AA can punish it, but, X's i11 AA can be blocked. 66K is -12 though.
 
Playing around a bit more with 66{K}, the tech crouch frames on BT 2K are really, really good. 66{K} BT 2K crouches under any high i14 or slower, so it starts crouching starting on frame 4. Cass AA will beat it, but Cass 6A will not. I believe the tech crouch lasts for the entire attack (still goes under i24 Cass 4K) as you are left in a crouching position on block and can be punished with a crouch throw (though there's much better actual punishes for it).

Handily, this beats out throws which a lot of people seem to try to do after blocking 66{K}. Course that is attacking at -10 with an i18 move, so, once they catch on and start doing mids or i13 or faster highs, stop doing this.
 
@andur - It might be a semi-TC property, try 2A'ing her and see if she's actually in FC'd position... I've had bad experiences with BT 2K's, she might have a legit BT 2K TC but most characters don't, its either no TC or a semi-TC that only goes under Throws and Algol's AA, etc... If I remember correctly, Talim's BT 2K actually TCs at i4 or something like that...
 
I did a bit of testing on the tech jump frames of 22_88B+K and 44B+K.

44B+K is truly abyssmal, from neutral (after a blocked 236K) it still gets hit by i18 lows (Mitsu 2K). It does beat Cass 1K (i21) and Cass 1A. So, its only the last few frames of the move that it actually gets into the air.

22_88B+K is better, again from neutral, it will jump Cass 2A, beat out throws, jumps Sieg 2A, but loses to Sieg 2K (though when I recorded this test, I found that I was trading 22_88B+K with Sieg 1A, meaning I was taking an extra frame to do 22_88B+K turning it into an i28 move). It also loses to Cass 1A at neutral. So, I believe it stops jumping at frame 20. If you 22_88B+K after a blocked BB (-8), it will lose to Cass 2K, but, beat throws, so it starts jumping at around frame 7.
 
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