Cassandras Frame Data

iKotomi said:
So, what is the difference between 236:B and 236B?
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One flashes white... and one doesn't :/

Even FC 236B and FC 236:B appear identical to each other.

No impact speed difference. No safety difference. No damage difference.

I suppose something that could be a little more subtle might be the distance it knocks on hit, or the hitbox - neither of which I have tested yet - but I highly doubt there actually is any difference between the normal version and the JF version.

I imagine it could just be like Setsuka's 1A:A:A GB animation on the 3rd Hit. It's just flashy for show. Serves no other purpose.
 
Maybe it does considerably more soul gauge damage?

There has to be SOMETHING noticeably different about it.
 
Its recovery period of 236:B, though unchanged in duration, begins earlier in the move's animation. Likewise the opponent recovers from blockstun earlier.

In other words?
JFing a 236:B or 236: makes it harder to punish without changing how unsafe they are.
 
KDZaster said:
Its recovery period of 236:B, though unchanged in duration, begins earlier in the move's animation. Likewise the opponent recovers from blockstun earlier.

In other words?
JFing a 236:B or 236: makes it harder to punish without changing how unsafe they are.
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I'm afraid I don't follow. At all. It's just as unsafe, but harder to punish?
 
Its recovery begins earlier than a normal deathfist does.
The opponent can attack earlier, since there's less blockstun.
The amount of recovery the move has remains unchanged.
Meaning, after they block a JF Deathfist, they have to start their punish earlier than if you dont JF it.

They're forced to react faster if they still want to punish.
 
KDZaster said:
Its recovery begins earlier than a normal deathfist does.
The opponent can attack earlier, since there's less blockstun.
The amount of recovery the move has remains unchanged.
Meaning, after they block a JF Deathfist, they have to start their punish earlier than if you dont JF it.

They're forced to react faster if they still want to punish.
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Ah. That's...tricky. I have to question its usefulness once people get used to it, though.
 
Impending_Doom66 said:
Lags 22_88AA knocks down on counter, and yes I know I have a strange obsession with this.

Btw did you test the 214 moves?
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ID: CH 22_88AA, CH 22A, and CH 88A is actually both a stun and a knockdown - I marked it down as a stun though since I find that a stun will usually mean there is a greater chance of guaranteed damage or tech trapping afterwards where as the probability is generally less for a knockdown.

And yes, look at the bottom of for the Angel Twirl moves. I did the movelist sequentially as they were listed in the Movelist for Cass (although, obviously, I included the unlisted ones like her 236 JF's)
 
cwistofu said:
Ah. That's...tricky. I have to question its usefulness once people get used to it, though.
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What KDZ is saying makes sense. The variation on the block stun / recovery for moves can impact WHEN you are supposed to punish something. The buffering window does appear different for the various moves. Some of Cass' other moves have some pretty decent block stun that makes the timing for punishing afterwards a little more tricky if you were used to quick punishing (so I suppose this would work vice versa).

A good case in point might be all those times when you try to 236B punish something... but it only comes out as 6B. Or 3B. Or FC 3B. I am starting to believe it is not because I can't do a silly fireball motion. It is because I am not recognizing how fast or how slow the block recovery is compared to when I am able to perform an action that will actually register.

Another different type of example might be Cass' 3B, 236B combo. If you do the 236B too soon, it will probably only come out as another 3B. You have to wait for Cass to recover from her 3B first.
 
BrewtusBibulus said:
I just checked up on it and this data isnt for the current patch

http://crna.no-ip.info/sc3_gs/cassandra_IV_movelist.html

Someone will have to compile the list from that if you guys want current data
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...Which is why I redid the frame data for 1.03 and it's located on Page 2 :o

I'll probably get more serious about figuring out more of the impact data for Cass next week. 8WR moves are a pain to impact test though since the chance of me not doing it at the fastest speed possible is likely very high (which means an absolute TON of retries for verification).
 
Additional impact data is now included in my post. Still more to do, but I can probably wrap up the vast majority of her movelist with the next update.

Found some weird impact/hitbox issues, such as 66B being able to beat out 1K from neutral, but under most normal circumstances, i22 seems accurate. Also found humorous double whiffing scenarios due to built-in evasion such as using 8A+B at +1 against WSB at close range.

Just as a random note, but you cannot A+B or B+K out of crouch if you are looking to TJ something. You'll end up doing WSA or WSB, respectively.

At some point, when I feel less lazy, I'll test Cass' aGI windows as well.
 
Okay, probably the final large-scale update is done. Basically, Cass frames for 1.03 are more or less as complete as they are going to be for a while. If anyone spots anything that looks wrong in my post, please let me know and I can try and re-test individual moves.

Additionally, I have added a small reference to her aGI windows as well. If I get really bored one day I might make a minor update and figure out the aGI frames on 236. Otherwise, I am moving onward to finding other things like Cass tech traps or other oddities.
 
Thought I would just throw this info out there for the curious...

Cass 1A - i26
Frame 1-2 = Facing opponent normally
Frame 3-6 = Left side towards opponent
Frame 7-10 = Back side towards opponent
Frame 11-14 = Right side towards opponent
Frame 15 = Facing opponent normally
Frame 16+ = Cass enters Tech Crouch state (can be crouch thrown from this point forward up to impact frame)


Cass 2B+K - i17
Frame 1-3 = Standing state
Frame 4+ = Cass enters Tech Crouch state (can be crouch thrown from this point forward up to impact frame)
 
I'm curious about a couple of things here that aren't listed in the frame data.

How fast are the various 214 moves? They are of course considerably slower than their 236 counterparts, but, there's no mention of them in the impact frames (just the auto-impact frames).

How fast are her moves like the 2nd hits of things like AK, BK, 33KK, 33K,A+K, B+K, and other such moves?

How long does the stun from her 8B+K/8[B+K] ground slam last? I know its not long enough to guarantee anything.
 
You can essentially cancel 214 with one of her Angel Twirl moves. However, because the cancellation window is so large, it adds a lot of variance to the possible impact frame. I don't find it worth determining because there are simply too few moves in which 214B or 214 is a proper punish for a blocked move. Even in those instances, knowing the actual frame for impact is largely irrelevant as you are essentially punishing a whiff.

For the curious however, as an example of one of the rare occasions, Cass' 2B8BAA on block is one of the instances where 214 is the proper punish after blocking the second B. The 214 connects for NH as Cass comes back down from the air during her whiff recovery.

The speed of the second, or third, hits on canned strings are mostly ignored. There are many potential reasons why, but the main one is that those tidbits of information are considered Anti-Character or are better off being listed as part of a move analysis and not a part of the general frame data.

The quake stun from 8B+K/8[B+K] is probably somewhere around +11 ~ +13 depending on various factors. I never fully tested the variance on this because I feel the quake is basically just a gimmick. You can usually just Step -> 7G to avoid the move and the quake. Anyways, to answer your question, in the right situation you can achieve a guaranteed CH AA or CH K from the quake stun. Normally though, nothing is guaranteed - so just use it as you would any other shakeable stun type move where you can get a free mixup off of it.
 
3K seems to be +11 on hit and counter hit, and 4K is +14 on hit and counter hit! (If your opponent shakes out of it)

I can do 4K 6AAA 4BB:A and never block it, but I can shake out and block 4K BB.

For 3K, I can trade hits with i25 A+B by doing i14 6A, but I can't manage to land a BB.

Not sure about the frame advantage on 66K and 66[K] counter hit shakable stuns. Though you can block AA and BT B+K, so, no better than +12.

Also, you can 33B after all of her shakable stuns and hit anyone that doesn't shake out, but, 236K doesn't work. So, I think they are around +30 frames if your opponent does nothing. Partial shakes don't seem to make any difference.


Edit: Oops, math error, 3K is +11, if 6A trades with A+B.
Edit Again: Messed around again some, and I did manage to counterhit A+B with BB after 3K, though A+B has a strange hitbox and whiff tendencies. In any event, its definitely not +13.
 
Another little find here. Did some testing on the speed of the 2nd hit of 33K, A+K.
If 33K hits, then A+K trades with i13 moves (Cassie AA) and is beaten by i12 moves (Sophie AA).
If 33K counterhits, then A+K can't be interrupted (beats i10 moves)
If 33K is blocked, then A+K trades with i23 moves (Cassie 8B), but always beats i24 moves (Cassie 8A)

The 2nd hit of 33K, K trades with Cassie i13 FC A if you block the 1st hit.
 
Did a bit of study on her stun durations.
The stun on WR {A} is +16 frames on hit or counter hit (WR {A} 236{B} and WR {A} 6B work but WR {A} 3K is blockable).
Her various crumple stuns are all at least +26, as WR A CH 1A, 6AAA CH 1A, 3AK CH 1A, 66B 1A, 22_88A CH 1A, 22_88AA CH 1A, 236{B} 1A, 66B+K CH 1A (this is very interesting, as 66B+K CH 1A 236B is more damaging than the 66B+K CH AB string) all seem to combo (though the in-game combo counter doesn't treat them as such, but, I couldn't seem to block any of those 1A's). Someone should double-check the 66B+K CH 1A and 22A CH 1A ones in particular, but I'm pretty confident that this is correct. All this was tested in training mode Cassandra vs Cassandra.
 
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