Cervantes Matchup: Discussion

I think I only showed it to Belial. Shen Yuan found it once we were in training about a year back before EVO2k12.

Anyway, it's 42G or 48G cancelling the backdash to a step guard. Basically it works like a step G, you will be able to avoid single verticals while being able to block step killers quite well. It's not a godlike technique, but god knows how many times this saves me in matches. It works best from a neutral game when you don't know what your opponent will throw out in mid range.

It's effective against certain matches and not so against others, particularly against Sieg, NM, Natsu, Prryha, Omega, Tira, Patroklos and even Asta to a certain extent.

Since movement is one of the most important aspect of this game, it will definitely benefit us as players if we know that this option is available should we decide to be more cautious with moving around. Like i said, it works best in neutral situation, and when you're at -8 or something.
 
ShenChan said:
I think I only showed it to Belial. Shen Yuan found it once we were in training about a year back before EVO2k12.

Anyway, it's 42G or 48G cancelling the backdash to a step guard. Basically it works like a step G, you will be able to avoid single verticals while being able to block step killers quite well. It's not a godlike technique, but god knows how many times this saves me in matches. It works best from a neutral game when you don't know what your opponent will throw out in mid range.

It's effective against certain matches and not so against others, particularly against Sieg, NM, Natsu, Prryha, Omega, Tira, Patroklos and even Asta to a certain extent.

Since movement is one of the most important aspect of this game, it will definitely benefit us as players if we know that this option is available should we decide to be more cautious with moving around. Like i said, it works best in neutral situation, and when you're at -8 or something.
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I thought this was universally known... o_O
 
ShenChan said:
I think I only showed it to Belial. Shen Yuan found it once we were in training about a year back before EVO2k12.

Anyway, it's 42G or 48G cancelling the backdash to a step guard. Basically it works like a step G, you will be able to avoid single verticals while being able to block step killers quite well. It's not a godlike technique, but god knows how many times this saves me in matches. It works best from a neutral game when you don't know what your opponent will throw out in mid range.

It's effective against certain matches and not so against others, particularly against Sieg, NM, Natsu, Prryha, Omega, Tira, Patroklos and even Asta to a certain extent.

Since movement is one of the most important aspect of this game, it will definitely benefit us as players if we know that this option is available should we decide to be more cautious with moving around. Like i said, it works best in neutral situation, and when you're at -8 or something.
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Oh yeah that. Wasn't quite sure what you meant. But as Hates said it's pretty well known.
 
I thought so at first. But i still do not see anyone applying it, or maybe i wasn't really looking enough. It makes a huge difference in some matchups.

Anyway, if it's already known then my bad. For the newer players sake, i'll just describe how it looks like.

The "step-guard" looks really stupid, you look like you're not evening moving at all, then any vertical with lousy tracking will whiff.

Edit: This is not like step cancel. Correct me i'm wrong, before they patched this up, it was step do a A_B_K~G to cancel the step and block. It's a long time back I can't even remember the details.
 
I dont think the matchup is worse than 5:5. Cervantes has one of the best spacing tools with 2A and 6A, insane throws with BT Mixups, really good backstep and also safe mids (spaced 3B, 2A+B which opens a perfect JG situation etc). Which tools does Pyrrha have to overcome good spacing? Risk reward for P's 3B is heavily against her in this matchup, 66A can be backstepped well.

He has guaraneteed damage on basically any JG in the game with aB, double damage on any whiff than Pyrrha. Pyrrhas Auto Evades like 22K and 22B are super risky against Cervantes due to 1AB and the whiffpunishment which is among the best in the game.

Pyrrha has nothing to break turtles apart from close range mixups, throws etc. And in this regards Cervantes is way above her. If she decides to be super carefull and only use pokes and throws, tries to close the gap etc you can switch to a heavy Soul Gauge game.

I cannot see how this shall be a negativ matchup. Cervantes has everything needed to beat her imo.
 
docvizzo said:
I dont think the matchup is worse than 5:5. Cervantes has one of the best spacing tools with 2A and 6A, insane throws with BT Mixups, really good backstep and also safe mids (spaced 3B, 2A+B which opens a perfect JG situation etc). Which tools does Pyrrha have to overcome good spacing? Risk reward for P's 3B is heavily against her in this matchup, 66A can be backstepped well.

He has guaraneteed damage on basically any JG in the game with aB, double damage on any whiff than Pyrrha. Pyrrhas Auto Evades like 22K and 22B are super risky against Cervantes due to 1AB and the whiffpunishment which is among the best in the game.

Pyrrha has nothing to break turtles apart from close range mixups, throws etc. And in this regards Cervantes is way above her. If she decides to be super carefull and only use pokes and throws, tries to close the gap etc you can switch to a heavy Soul Gauge game.

I cannot see how this shall be a negativ matchup. Cervantes has everything needed to beat her imo.
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3B is in no way safe in this match up. It can either be AA or CE punished by Pyrrha. Pyrrha's 3B only comes with the risk of a B punish unless she whiffs it or cervy uses full meter so I don't see how it's against her at all. She can overcome spacing simply by punishing anything and putting herself at advantage. When you're at disadvantage then 66A absolutely cannot be backstepped. You should be more afraid of 44A anyway. Not to mention OS JG attempts leave your feet wide open for some 1K abuse. Not to mention she has much more that just 66A and 44A to stop backstep that are braindead safe.

And she can run the guard gauge game on you as well so that works both ways.
 
Who cares about an AA punishment for 3B? Like i care about 22 Damage when my character does 92 when it hits. She can block it almost 5 times to get that damage.

1K abuse? How can that move be abused? Use 44B, maybe even 44A+B works to evade it for imba damage.
Its a low with bad range which leaves her at -1. That and 2K along with her Throws are her options to break good turtling, spacing etc. And P's throws are a joke compared to Cervantes.

Also after 1K you have the advantage afterwards, you can force your mixups on her, not the other way around. If she forces mixups on you than you are playing it wrong. And Cervantes Mixups are way above P's. If she goes for some TC shit you can 8B+K behind her (100 Damage, almost full life next to a wall, RO next to a RO).
You have Auto Gis, you have 22K which is safe, has an Auto GI, steps verticals and counters horizontals.

When i read this to me it looks like you guys are still playing SC4. Trying to keep it safe. In some matchups Cervantes can simply be played by abusing his massive advantage in Damage. Sc5 is quite stone paper scissorish in this regards. If you guess right you hit. No safe options, everything has a counter. And Cervantes needs way less guesses than Pyrrha does.

Also he has ways to force a mixup while beeing safe. Instant 1B+K Cancel basically means a free throw attempt everytime you have advantage. You can cancel into throw, cancel into BT B+K (will teach people not to duck) which is almost a blockstun(-3 or -4ish) and gives perfect reverse mindgame options, you can cancel into A+B Auto Gi if they are AA happy etc. You can JG etc etc.

Cervantes has absolutely everything he needs, you only need to take some risks at some points, at least in your offense. Throw like a whore, force her to duck, shut down her stepping game with 1AB, just abuse the fact that Cervantes is broken in this game by using the risk/reward on most of his moves.

Cervantes is absoutely imbalanced, there is a reason why Malek plays him (Camera zoom on Maleks face) :)
 
Ring said:
What xd
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What you didnt know? Switched to Cervantes, at least the last times i have seen him play. Good choice.

Also the french have the matchup 6:4 for Cervy (Kira has it as 6:4, Dina has it as 4:6 from P's view), i think the same. If somebody has supergood reasoning behind a 5:5 i could take that maybe, but not for the moment.
 
docvizzo said:
What you didnt know? Switched to Cervantes, at least the last times i have seen him play. Good choice.
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Last time I have seen Malek (and everyone else) play was at EBO. I remember he also switched to Zas in SC4 so I can never be sure what his reasons are ;)
 
Ring said:
I remember he also switched to Zas in SC4 so I can never be sure what his reasons are ;)
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Maybe because SC4 Ivy was a little bit ...hmmm I don't know... too strong? :P

I think the generel consensus in France is that Ivy is pretty much garbage in SC5 (at least from what I heard at WGC), so maybe that's why he dropped her.
 
He said he switched because SC5 ivy is unintersting. He has no need to train with her.

I agree with Docvizzo here, IMO Cervy has no negative MUs.
 
Maxou said:
He said he switched because SC5 ivy is unintersting. He has no need to train with her.

I agree with Docvizzo here, IMO Cervy has no negative MUs.
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I agree with you guys as well, He doesn't have any bad matchups in this game. Cervy has an answer to everything really.
 
Ok so i just checked a few things in trainings modus:

Cervantes bA whiff on purpose rapes her whole moveset from midrange. There is basically nothing she can do.

It catches 236B, 236A, 3B, 66A+B, 66K, 44B, 44A. You name it. Whenever you are in midrange just whiff this move and the only thing she can do is run up and AA if you have good reactions. ANY other moves is countered. If you duck it on close range there is nothing she can do besides WS K. Any time she does one of those moves in an open situation and you just whiff bA on purpose its 100 Damage for free. Risk is 22 Damage from an AA.

A well spaced 3B can NOT be punished by AA.

A 66B which is not completely on close range can not be punished with 236B. If she misjudges just a bit its a free 236B punish or whiff punish for 90+ Damage.

1K on Hit into 1K can be evaded with 44A+B for 130 Damage. If she whiffs a 22B and does the full string you can punish with charged 44A+B for 160 Damage. If she stops at 22BA which most people will do you can punish with 44A+B for 130 Damage almost. Or just 6B BE for easy 100, 3B whatever.

If you really think Cervantes has no options against her you guys are nuts :)
 
docvizzo said:
I dont think Omega is a bad matchup as well to be honest. I used to think that but with the use of bA i changed my mind. Any blind TASB etc can be 100 Damage for Cervantes. Punishing bA is really just easy from close, midrange...but usally its just AA or similar. Risk Reward is broken for this move. Way too big + Frames on Guard Impact.
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bA doesn't mean the end to DNS B just means that she can't spam it at that range just like Alpha can't spam 33B. It still catches his backstep at a closer range and punishes 1A,B hard. Kira thinks Omega is his hardest MU too. Agreed about the GI window for bA should be 17-18max. I disagree that Pyrrha's throws aren't good, and Cervy's regular A throw is weak.

End of the day there really isn't a MU that Cervy can't overcome by backstepping and whiff punishing with 3b and guessing when they're gonna back step and side step so you can hit them hard with 1a:b and 4B BE.

Maxou said:
He said he switched because SC5 ivy is unintersting. He has no need to train with her.
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Lol, Cervy isn't much more interesting as outlined by Doc. Glad he kept it in the family though, there aren't many Cervy players surprisingly.
 
Oprah can DNS K or CE punish bA on block. 4AB → DNS B will work on whiff.
Pyrrha's options are shittier. She gets 6BK/CE on block and 4A series on whiff.

No disrespect intended, but I think you're overselling bA a bit. Most characters get a pretty strong punish on it due to it giving a free CH—even shitty/low damage punishers get pretty good damage on it for the most part (Aeon gets 4B → 66K/6B BE, Asta gets 6AA, Raphael gets 6B BE, Leixia gets AA BE, Nightmare gets CH 6K, et cetera). I see it as being similar to Nightmare's GS A. Both give great damage in the right circumstances (bA aGIs something, GS A gets a CH), but are also unsafe, high, and prone to a generalized form of counter (highs/lows for bA, horizontals for GS A). It's a useful niche tool and a handy aGI to have, but not something to orient an entire playstyle around.
 
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