E3 Demo Impressions

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[13] Hero
Yoshimitsu is very different this time around, and I had quite the time figuring out how to adjust to his changes. After figuring out his old inputs and useful new moves, though, I had an absolute blast playing him. He's now all about building and using meter effectively, with many of his attacks having soul absorbing animations at the end of them, which build meter. Unique also is his ability to power up some of his moves at the cost of half a bar of meter, similar to EX moves in other fighting games or "Brave Edges" from Soul Calibur V, which synergizes with his meter building. It also allows him to use his powerful Soul Charge and Critical Edge more often.

Jarring at first was the changes to the range of Yoshimitsu's moves and the long range of many of the other characters. The overall effect feels like a decrease in range relative to the rest of the cast, compared to where he was in the previous game, where he was still the shortest range character, but ranges in general were closer to each other. What felt like a new weakness was really just a reversion back to earlier games, where short range didn't stop him from being a strong character.

But what really makes him so different in this game is the weakening or removal of some his previous core tools, and the strengthening of other tools and addition of new ones. I hope players don't overreact to these changes and learn to use the new abilities which have ultimately made him a more interesting character, which is saying a lot -- they may have improved on the perfection of SCV Yoshimitsu.
 
Alright, let's get down to the details. His new move list as of the demo and as far as I've found purely through trying out inputs can be found here: https://8wayrun.com/threads/heavens-net-casts-wide-yoshimitsu-general-discussion.20050/

His effective move list aside from punishers and stance moves looks something like this:

Mids:
  • up close:
    • 3B/3BB/3(B)~DGF - spinny attack, good damage launcher with options to force opponents to guess in order to punish. Better on oki than the old 3B.
    • 66B - safe, fast, middle damage mid
    • 6A+B~FLE - hit confirm into FLE 66 KND and soul absorption, CH confirm into FLE B launch, block confirm into FLE B / FLE (B) / FLE hops
    • 66K (TJ) (by wall) - same as before
    • 6BB BE (CH) - Door Knocker BE, CH confirmable
    • 44bA (guard damage) - same as before
    • iWR B (TC) (CH) - old 33B that will still has its use in game a with a lot of good high pokes
  • tracking up close:
    • 3K - range increased, otherwise same as before
    • FC1AAA (TC) - better recovery, not quite SCII strength but usable
    • 8K (TJ) (esp. by wall) - still great, not sure if it's safe in this game
    • 3A/3AA/3AB (CH) - Mitsurugi speed 3A that's usable on its own but has tricky difficult-to-CH-confirm string followups. For 3AA, if the 2nd hit CHs only, Yoshi does a high damage attack throw that absorbs souls.
  • close-mid range:
    • BB/BBB (CH) - increased range BB with CH confirmable NCC third B that absorbs souls
    • iFC B (TC) - replacement for 2B when you need a reasonably fast TC poke to deal with keepaway highs.
    • 9B (TJ) - increased range and is in general a decent safe and damaging poke.
    • b:A (CH) - in SCV an almost redundant CH tool among others, in this game, the best one left. Absorbs souls, gaining meter as usual, but also stealing meter from the opponent.
    • 44K (TC) - safe launcher, faster and longer range than the old 1K kangaroo kick.
    • 4A+B (guard damage) (backstep) - old 4B has a little backstep that looks meant to dodge 2As.
  • tracking close-mid range:
    • 66A - does a second hit with the palm that sticks out, like SCV 66A BE, only on hit and CH, though. Slightly unsafe, but damaging and absorbs souls.
  • Mid range:
    • 4KB - not sure on the safety or GIability of the move, but this is an essential whiff punisher at the loss of SCV 22B. Damage has been increased, but no KND and is 0 on hit or worse. It might be a bit faster and longer range, too.
    • 66B+K - shark attack mid that might be needed for its range. Usefulness depends on whether it's safe or not in this game.
  • tracking mid range:
    • 44A - Flag attack, KND on NH, safe tracking mid, just like SCV but with more range.
  • Long range:
    • 66A+B - same as usual
    • 44B+K - same as usual
Highs:
  • tracking:
    • AA (BE) (CH) - Longer range, is CH confirmable, but even on block, it's a guard break at the end, so it'll cut through RE if you confirm it, and it'll be + on block if you use it mindlessly. Third is GIable but with difficulty, opponent probably has to guess.
    • 4A (BE) - Big helicopter attack BE that's a guard break at the end. Mid range tracking mid after the first high. Mindlessly spammable in SC.
    • 22A (by wall)
  • high speed poke:
    • 4B - low damage but fast poke that does soul absorbtion
    • K - does more damage this time around to the point where it's useful
    • 44bB (CH) - faster and more usable at range due to Lethal Hit on CH. Leads to high damage combo with meter, decent without.
Lows:
  • 1K - 0 on hit, fast chunky low, great for round ending and in general
  • iFC 3K (tracking) - shorter range, but safer
  • 1BA/1(B)~MED/1BB (TC) - linear low into NC tracking followup that's launch punishable, fast MED transition, or linear mid followup that's probably good on block
  • 2K (oki) (tracking) - the usual
Other:
  • MCF (TC) - Easier to do, longer range, too much pushback on CH for a combo unless by the wall or edge. CE probably combos anywhere.
  • 2A (TC) - the usual
  • Throws - the usual, except in Soul Charge, it does the old stance cancel throws for more damage and good oki.
  • CE - infinite range whiff punisher that's also a guard break. Good damage and heals a little. Something like a 100 damage differential, higher than any CE seen so far. Middle speed. Steppable after the flash if they have time. Guard break may go through GI and RE, so GI CE may be possible. Best CE in the game so far.

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So, a lot of positives and negatives touched on there. Notable to me is the loss of 2B, decreased iFC 3K and old 3B range (and now it's on 22B, and old 22B is gone), the decrease of MCF damage outside of wall/edge and CE followups, the loss of Earslicer (though I haven't checked if 3AA isn't air controllable like Kilik 3AB, the second hit is Earslicer), and the loss of 33B (except as the new WR B). That was half of what I did with SCV Yoshimitsu, and that's not an exaggeration. It only made it worse that 2B is now old 1B, and I constantly did that move instinctively. However, I gradually picked up on the strength of the new moves.

First, the new 3B is way better than the old one, with the ability to force the opponent to guess in order to punish it, sort of like if you had old CH 33B on normal hit. 3B rings out over low walls and 3(B) ~DGF A rings out long distance, so I hardly miss the 4A JF series. And we have a bunch of other mids that can be used if we need safety while having speed and a variety of utility, where in SCV his safe damaging mids were all i22-i25 and practically all redundant, and the rest were still a bit risky. In SC6 we have the new 66B, which looks like old 3B+K, but is faster (though dealing ~44 damage on NH). FC 1A series, 3A, 6A+B, all good mids as I described in the list.

Second, we don't have 33B, iMCF, or even a:B+K for our CH neutral game, but we do have b:A, BBB, MCF, LH 44bB, and AA BE. b:A is not great on NH but is a good replacement on CH, granting a huge meter differential. BBB is probably the best of its kind in the game right now, being a CH confirmable NCC that gives a lot of meter. BB is our "good-on-NH-but-better-on-CH" tool. MCF is easier and has longer range, almost like having SCV 6B BE for free all the time. I've always said that range isn't an issue for Yoshi in SCV because of dash iMCF being faster than his long range moves and that of many other characters, and that's even more true with the longer range MCF. On hit, you get a mixup as usual but this time you'll need to FC 3K to reach them with a low. On CH, they get pushed slightly further away and undergo a ~16-17 frame stun that leaves them standing. That's plenty of time to run forward and mix up. I've landed several dash MCFs in a row against mashers. On block, MCF pushes back really far, granting stage position gain for free and being jarring as hell.

Thanks to the Lethal Hit stun on CH, 44bB has been buffed quite a bit, seeming slightly faster and being much more damaging on a CH tip hit than before, where you expect to hit a move like this. CH AA BE is a massive improvement to his tracking while being a great CH move, I'm going to make a lot of Tekken players cry for CHing confirming on their movement. Last thing I'll say here is that we have 33B from WR B, so it can be used a lot like how it was used in SCIV where all of Yoshi's WR moves sucked so I just used 33B from crouch a lot of the time.

Third, the FC 3K range nerf isn't so bad when you realize they made it safer. Kilik WR B couldn't punish it, a move that was i19 in SCIV, so it's -18 or better. Also, Yoshi has new lows to mix in, 1K and 1B strings as I described before. iFC 3K was also used for tracking, but that's been improved quite a bit in other ways. 4A BE starts with the short range 4A high up close, but the next part is a wide downward helicopter attack that ends in a break attack. We still have 3K and 44A which has buffed range to suit the new game. 66A is more damaging. AA BE is CH confirmable string as I've said, and dash AA is still underestimated for ranged step catching.

And you know these BEs I keep talking about? You can do them limitlessly in Soul Charge, and SC DGF BBBBB is a high damage unblockable that results in a flashy combo on hit. The last perks I've found are different throws and DGF sidestep is faster. The other BEs are 6BB BE, a CH confirm DNK launch, and WR A BE, a good punisher from crouch.

Lacking 2B still kinda hurts, its utility split somewhat between iFC B (for the safe fast TC) and 4B (for the really fast poke). Range on tracking low iFC 3K lowers step catching range even though once Yoshi is in close-mid range, he's much stronger. Point-blank range isn't completely dominant like before, though the effect of making your opponent want to run away is still there. But, he has other strengths that make up for it, namely his meter options and his ability to have them at his disposal more often than other characters.

Last note: I didn't get into the stances much because while they do seem strong now, there may be counters to heavy stance play as usual due to REs, GIs, and CEs. They still should be used as a surprise, which they are very good at doing because all transitions are super fast.
 
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Nice, we might see some changes in the final build, but overall I like this. So I think it would be easier to get in simply by having 1 bat, cause of the potential whiff punishing with the CE.
 
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