Game breaking : Ivy nearly duplicate animation 2B+K and 2A+G but require different guard.

Wardensc2

Wardensc2

[08] Mercenary
I'm sorry to post this topic here but I just want Namco make a response fast enough. If anyone find it annoying please forgive me I just want the game to be better

I just watch this video:


Ivy is now turned into a cheap character. How can you recognize the different between 2B+K and 2A+G which one require to stand block and one require to sit and guard.

Both moves has the same animation, what's going on here ? Here is the comparison

2A+G (need to block low)
2A+G.gif



2B+K (need standing block)
2B+K.gif


Look at LinkRKC abuse the 2A+G move. It catchs step safe on distance and no one can't recognize the different between 2A+G and 2B+K

Is this some kind of joke Namco ?
 
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IVY SHOULD PROBABLY BE TWEAKED IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. SHE HAS SOME OTHER VERY GOOD MOVES, BUT ALL OF IT PUT TOGETHER GETS CRAZY.
 
Wardensc2 said:
I'm sorry to post this topic here but I just want Namco make a response fast enough. If anyone find it annoying please forgive me I just want the game to be better

I just watch this video:


Ivy is now turned into a cheap character. How can you recognize the different between 2B+K and 2A+G which one require to stand block and one require to sit and guard.

Both moves has the same animation which is thrusting the sword into the ground, what's going on here ?

Look at LinkRKC abuse the 2A+G and 2B+K. It catchs step safe on distance and no one can't recognize the different between 2A+G and 2B+K

Is this some kind of joke Namco ?
Click to expand...

It may seem very threatening like that but (as far as I can tell) PS seems to be pushing us to GI Ivy at range and run in. If you can react to the start up animation for the throw and guard low, you can simply forgo that and GI and deal with the mixup completely.
 
thenewperson said:
It may seem very threatening like that but (as far as I can tell) PS seems to be pushing us to GI Ivy at range and run in. If you can react to the start up animation for the throw and guard low, you can simply forgo that and GI and deal with the mixup completely.
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THERE'S ALSO THE UNBREAKABLE THROW AND THAT SUPER LONG RANGE HORIZONTAL. ALSO, IF THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASUAL PLAYERS END UP OVERWHELMED TRYING TO BEAT ANY ONE MOVE OR IF IT IS PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT TO COUNTER EFFICIENTLY, THEN NAMCO ISN'T DOING THEMSELVES ANY FAVORS BY LEAVING IT UNCHANGED. CALIBUR'S DESIGN IS SUPPOSED TO BE EASY FOR PLAYERS TO UNDERSTAND AND PUSH BUTTONS, EVEN IF THE MIND GAMES DO GO DEEP.
 
MONEYMUFFINS said:
THERE'S ALSO THE UNBREAKABLE THROW AND THAT SUPER LONG RANGE HORIZONTAL. ALSO, IF THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASUAL PLAYERS END UP OVERWHELMED TRYING TO BEAT ANY ONE MOVE OR IF IT IS PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT TO COUNTER EFFICIENTLY, THEN NAMCO ISN'T DOING THEMSELVES ANY FAVORS BY LEAVING IT UNCHANGED. CALIBUR'S DESIGN IS SUPPOSED TO BE EASY FOR PLAYERS TO UNDERSTAND AND PUSH BUTTONS, EVEN IF THE MIND GAMES DO GO DEEP.
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True. I also feel sorry for anyone playing against her online in less-than-stellar conditions.
 
thenewperson said:
It may seem very threatening like that but (as far as I can tell) PS seems to be pushing us to GI Ivy at range and run in. If you can react to the start up animation for the throw and guard low, you can simply forgo that and GI and deal with the mixup completely.
Click to expand...

No you can't because Ivy can cancel all the moves as well.

Not only you have to choose standing guard or low guard, you can't GI because she can cancel it very easy watch more in the youtube link I put you will see LinkRKC also cancel these moves easily
 
Dude muffins cool it with the caps.

Ivy seems really strong right now but it is way too early to worry about balance. Unless there is a game breaking bug I’m hoping the devs let the game rock for several months after launch and see how everything shifts out.

As far as the specific moves the animations are definitely different. I think looking at the angle of the sword would be the best way to deal. In one the sword points towards Ivy in the other it points out. I haven’t played the game but it seems like it could be blocked on reaction based on that. Hard to do, but not broken.
 
Discoprophet said:
Dude muffins cool it with the caps.

Ivy seems really strong right now but it is way too early to worry about balance. Unless there is a game breaking bug I’m hoping the devs let the game rock for several months after launch and see how everything shifts out.

As far as the specific moves the animations are definitely different. I think looking at the angle of the sword would be the best way to deal. In one the sword points towards Ivy in the other it points out. I haven’t played the game but it seems like it could be blocked on reaction based on that. Hard to do, but not broken.
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Even the pros can't recognize it and you think you can, I don't think so. Do you think LinkRKC skill only can beat 5 opponents with high skill, I dont think so because the character only.

I'm totally cool with unbreakable throw or super long range horizon and the low throw but Namco must change it into different animation. And why should we have to wait for months for balance patch when we can correct the game before it release, this is the purpose of demo game right ?
 
Good job with the comparison gifs:

2B+K may just end up as a special-mid or special-low
-or-
2A+G may end up being non-tracking.
 
Wasn't 2B+K always special mid? I can't remember honestly.
If not, then fuck that. Don't need to wait 8 months to finally agree that's a problem, lol.

@InsaneKhent This was the mixup I was wondering about, lol.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Wasn't 2B+K always special mid? I can't remember honestly.
If not, then fuck that. Don't need to wait 8 months to finally agree that's a problem, lol.
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Ivy's 1_2_3B+K is a Special Mid in SCII & SCV as well as SCIII & IV SW 1_2_3B+K is a Special Mid.
 
After mulling over this one for a while, I think it's a non-problem.

Ivy needs a strong ranged mixup. 2A+G does track step a little too well, but I feel that'll only be a concern online.
 
KONMAI said:
After mulling over this one for a while, I think it's a non-problem.

Ivy needs a strong ranged mixup. 2A+G does track step a little too well, but I feel that'll only be a concern online.
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The mixup would be 2A+G and whatever that ranged 2-hit horizontal is. She wouldn't need 2B+K to beat crouch block on top of that.
But it's been special mid forever, so crouch block should beat both of those.
 
thenewperson said:
It may seem very threatening like that but (as far as I can tell) PS seems to be pushing us to GI Ivy at range and run in. If you can react to the start up animation for the throw and guard low, you can simply forgo that and GI and deal with the mixup completely.
Click to expand...
Reacting to that startup animation's not exactly simple. (Though in the team tournament we were all on laggy Samsung monitors so reacting to it was actually harder than it should've been so that particular video is not wholly representative. Look at top 8 if you want to see how this all plays out on decent monitors.)

As it is, it basically restricts the opponent into approaching Ivy on a 2d plane. It also really complicates wake up once Ivy's pushed you back into her ideal range yet again.
 
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2AG.gif

66A1.gif


Sorry for the big GIF files. Don`t think 2B+K is issue, 66[A] is more funny to use.

What I have say. She is balance, don`t need change, just enjoy the game on launch.Kappa
 
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Marginal said:
Reacting to that startup animation's not exactly simple.
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But it is though because Ivy's a zoner and if you're in the area you know it's one of her tools to look out for.

People really need to stop demanding nerfs until proper play testing because demands like this leads to dull, ineffective characters.
 
sytus said:
But it is though because Ivy's a zoner and if you're in the area you know it's one of her tools to look out for.

People really need to stop demanding nerfs until proper play testing because demands like this leads to dull, ineffective characters.
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Let Talim be non-viable like she was in SCIV.
 
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