Game breaking : Ivy nearly duplicate animation 2B+K and 2A+G but require different guard.

[MONEYMUFFINS]

But it is though because Ivy's a zoner and if you're in the area you know it's one of her tools to look out for.

People really need to stop demanding nerfs until proper play testing because demands like this leads to dull, ineffective characters.

CHANGING THE PROPERTY OF ONE MOVE DOES NOT SUDDENLY MEAN A CHARACTER IS UNVIABLE. THE WHOLE POINT OF THESE DEMOS IS TO POINT OUT CONCERNS AND YOU'RE ASSUMING THE TOURNAMENT PLAYERS ARE TOO IGNORANT TO WORK WITH WHAT THEY HAVE.

ALSO, IT'S NOT FAIR TO ASSUME WE KNOW WHAT IVY'S OVERALL DESIGN IS INTENDED TO BE. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT PROJECT SOUL IS TRYING TO DO YET NECESSARILY. WE HAVE A LANGUAGE BARRIER AS USUAL, NO COMMUNICATION FROM THEM.

 

[Marginal]

But it is though because Ivy's a zoner and if you're in the area you know it's one of her tools to look out for.

People really need to stop demanding nerfs until proper play testing because demands like this leads to dull, ineffective characters.

Ok question for you. Why does that low grab need to track sideways? Ivy has multiple moves to check step already. As it is now, the way her move set is structured, opponents are limited to a 2d plane with highly restricted options on wakeup.

How would removing that side tracking with that purple spot render Ivy unviable?

 

[Signia]

Here's how I think people should play against Ivy's 2_3 A+G_B+K mixups:

Dash forward in front of the 2 option range, constantly, and don't try to step. There is no 1A+G or 1B+K. You do end up running into unbreakable SS range, though. She is weak up close, but not terribly so. No weaker than Astaroth in previous games. She has no fast 2A and lacks a fast tracking mid as far as I know, but still has 3K and decent high horizontals. All this means is that you get to keep up pressure if you're at -2, and she may be forced to take somewhat bad risks with her linear or high tools at -6. (or hit you with 2A which doesn't accomplish much). It's nothing too scary for her though, as she can RE, GI, or backstep as her defensive tools, just like everyone else, and she has a counter CE and SC to stop any pressure if she has meter. The easy whiff punishers 3B and 22A that she has, as well as 214A and 22K for evasion, and strong while standing launchers make her defensive play fairly comfortable.

She has other decent moves at mid range to deter you at close-mid, her only weak zone is right up in her face. Characters that aren't highly rewarded for getting in close might not have the advantage one might expect for being forced to dash forward constantly to avoid mixups. Characters with strong range might have different approaches, such as Sieg aGIing the range throw with SBH or Groh using his range to get close and pressure with his stance, or maybe having strong enough range to go toe to toe (Mina?).

The fact that you're forced to dash forward all the time and not step because it's too dangerous to move any other way may be too limiting especially because the reward for getting in isn't that stellar for most characters. Ivy seems to beat mid range characters, as they will not be able to go toe to toe at mid/long range, and their reward for closing the gap into their ideal close-mid range will be negligible and close range reward not enough. Characters that have good pressure up close, such as Yoshimitsu, Taki, Sophitia, and possibly Talim may have an easier time as long as they constantly press forward, and characters like Groh and Siegfried may have their own unique approaches. Mina/Asta may also be powerful at range, we'll see.

Right now it seems like she requires counterpicking, top level play, and well-developed matchup knowledge to handle her standard play. This follows the pattern that SCIV Ivy and SCV Viola followed, beatable but top tier and requiring more effort to fight against than usual.

I say make her ranged throws linear and have more recovery so they are easy to whiff punish hard and more characters are able to block punish it.

 

[Wardensc2]

Why is changing an animation a nerf for her ? All I ask is changing a motion, you can keep all low grab, unblock summon suffering, super long range blah blah blah. This same animation is obvious flaw of this game. You can't guard what you can't see, noone can see the different. It's cheating, I play this game from Soul Edge to Soul 5 and never complain about Ivy, she's good in all versions but in this version she's cheating.

 

[Marginal]

Why is changing an animation a nerf for her ? All I ask is changing a motion, you can keep all low grab, unblock summon suffering, super long range blah blah blah. This same animation is obvious flaw of this game. You can't guard what you can't see, noone can see the different. It's cheating, I play this game from Soul Edge to Soul 5 and never complain about Ivy, she's good in all versions but in this version she's cheating.

But she glowes purple and raises her arms for the throw and just stabs the ground for the other. Perfectly practical when your attention is focused under your own character's feet.

 

[Wardensc2]

But she glowes purple and raises her arms for the throw and just stabs the ground for the other. Perfectly practical when your attention is focused under your own character's feet.

Look, noone can focus everytime to see purple and not purple, you can keep your low grab. Fine I don't care just another move to remember but just change the animation into something else and problem's solved.

By the way, we often focus on what opponent doing than focus on ourselves when play FT game

 

[Marginal]

Look, noone can focus everytime to see purple and not purple, you can keep your low grab. Fine I don't care just another move to remember but just change the animation into something else and problem's solved.

By the way, we often focus on what opponent doing than focus on ourselves when play FT game

I was just kidding.

I found myself focusing on my character since my character was under immediate threat.

Also tired to figure out if there was a difference between the two animations while I was playing Link. Just got lethal hit 2x for my trouble. I only noticed that raised arms purple thing rewatching the video when I hit this thread.

 

[Artilust]

The animations actually arent the same. The throw she swings her arm over, but its neither here nor there.

These knee-jerk reactions to strong tools are how we end up with games that have been literally GUTTED of real high level play mechanics. You guys are just gonna have to put in the work when the game is released, this shouldnt even been a discussion until months after we have had the game in our hands.

I would be disappointed is Namco addresses this pre release, I have a little more faith in them to make something that feels polished and presentable.

 

[Marginal]

The animations actually arent the same. The throw she swings her arm over, but its neither here nor there.

These knee-jerk reactions to strong tools are how we end up with games that have been literally GUTTED of real high level play mechanics. You guys are just gonna have to put in the work when the game is released, this shouldnt even been a discussion until months after we have had the game in our hands.

I would be disappointed is Namco addresses this pre release, I have a little more faith in them to make something that feels polished and presentable.

Unlikely. They rebalanced Sophie etc from build to build. I doubt Ivy will be any different.

 

[Wardensc2]

The animations actually arent the same. The throw she swings her arm over, but its neither here nor there.

These knee-jerk reactions to strong tools are how we end up with games that have been literally GUTTED of real high level play mechanics. You guys are just gonna have to put in the work when the game is released, this shouldnt even been a discussion until months after we have had the game in our hands.

I would be disappointed is Namco addresses this pre release, I have a little more faith in them to make something that feels polished and presentable.

Please give me a break. Don't you know how long does it take for Namco to release a new Soul game compare with Tekken.

How many patchs does Soul Calibur V receive after the game released ? Only one and does it make the game perfectly balance ? No I don't think so.

How long does it take to make a new version from Soul Calibur V to VI ? 6 years compare to average 2-3 year for new Tekken version.

Let's face it pal, Namco never treat Soul Calibur same as good as Tekken. They just come to care right now due to FT E-sport develop very well in the past few years. Especially with Capcom Street Fighter series from SF4 to SF5, they experiment with Tekken 7 and receive good result then Soul Calibur come after.

Capcom release balance patch for Street Fighter every few months that make the game live very long. Player like us have more power to complain so why can't we use it.

At least we can receive the feedback from them, they intend to make 2 moves similar like this or they will fix. That's is communication. They show us that they really care.

It isn't the personal matter it's the community voice, if most of people accept it even if it's not me then I'm fine with it. The thing is not only me see it annoying. Many people agree with it so why can't we speak, address the thing to Namco. More people satisfy more people buy and play it.

And also the demo game is for people play and check, so we check and we found it should be awared unless you want Namco just tell you wait for October and play, you don't need to know the game is good or bad = )))))

 

[Artilust]

The difference is you havent even given the game a proper release and we are preemptively having a meltdown.

Unlikely. They rebalanced Sophie etc from build to build. I doubt Ivy will be any different.

I wouldnt count on namco changing the animation, that defeats the purpose of the move being a 50/50

 

[Marginal]

The difference is you havent even given the game a proper release and we are preemptively having a meltdown.

They bring the builds to tournaments for player feedback. We're providing it.

I personally don't care about the animation. The move properties in aggregate are the issue from what multiple players have stated here, on twitter, on Discord, in person etc. This stuff has been circulating since the E3 build initial release BTW. This isn't Link won a tournament fuck this character kinda thing.

Right now, Ivy's game is is is too reductive to how the game plays for every other character. This is SCIV Hilde level stuff if left untouched.

 

[Iceweb38]

Isn't the grab version just specific as a counter hit?

 

[Wardensc2]

They bring the builds to tournaments for player feedback. We're providing it.

I personally don't care about the animation. The move properties in aggregate are the issue from what multiple players have stated here, on twitter, on Discord, in person etc. This stuff has been circulating since the E3 build initial release BTW. This isn't Link won a tournament fuck this character kinda thing.

Right now, Ivy's game is is is too reductive to how the game plays for every other character. This is SCIV Hilde level stuff if left untouched.

And Hilde is banned in many tournaments after the game is released the same with Algol just because Namco doesn't care

 

[Frayhua]

They bring the builds to tournaments for player feedback. We're providing it.

I personally don't care about the animation. The move properties in aggregate are the issue from what multiple players have stated here, on twitter, on Discord, in person etc. This stuff has been circulating since the E3 build initial release BTW. This isn't Link won a tournament fuck this character kinda thing.

Right now, Ivy's game is is is too reductive to how the game plays for every other character. This is SCIV Hilde level stuff if left untouched.

 

[sytus]

And Hilde is banned in many tournaments after the game is released the same with Algol just because Namco doesn't care

We're in a different age when it comes to fighting games. Ever since the 8th generation and the advancements of internet technology, having outright broken mechanics in major fighting games are pretty much a thing of the past. It's clear that Bandai Namco is willing to support further development of their fighting games with Tekken 7 as prime example and if you're really concerned, your grievences can be heard over social media as you have a direct line to the developers themselves, plus prominent figures in the fighting game community with huge followings can easily pass on concerns to the developers. You're blowing this way out of proportion.

 

[Evil_Zutus]

This mixup at that kind of range should clearly be possible to beat with movement options. So her low throw catching step should not be possible imo. It's a example of one move having too many good properties and no drawbacks for using it. If they keep it this way she should be -20+ so you can punish at range.

 

[Javan]

I came here right after I watched this video to see if anyone else noticed. I already thought it was bad enough that the special low did so much damage as well as having launching properties for wall splatter and ring outs, but once I saw that it had a mid variation with no change in animation I lost my shit. if they are going to keep both moves it needs more distinct telegraphing. This is unfair.

 

[babalook]

Maybe I've just been ruined by NRS games where some characters don't just have safe 50/50's but plus on block 50/50's where both options lead to full combos on hit and extremely viable zoning characters, so none of this looks too crazy to me. One thing I do find odd about Ivy as of right now is that SS is unbreakable which makes CS kind of pointless unless CS can blow through GI's and RE's (something I saw mentioned but never confirmed). I'll hold off on calling anything broken until I've invested a good number of hours into the matchup and seen a disproportional display of dominance from her in tournaments. I've seen plenty of zoning characters get tarred and feathered early in a game since players haven't gotten used to the matchup (or movement in general) yet and zoners are probably the least enjoyable FG archetype to play against (besides perhaps vortex characters) so feathers get ruffled more often. A few things look potentially worrying but balance is relative and a lot of characters look like they've got some BS.

 

[Sadrabbit]

This mixup at that kind of range should clearly be possible to beat with movement options. So her low throw catching step should not be possible imo.

Or perhaps they could add a movement option to the game that isn't side step. Like forward or something crazy. Something that beats both the low and the mid and puts you in range to punish the whiff at the same time. But it might be too late to add something silly like JUST-MOVING-THE-FUCK-FORWARD to the game.

This is SCIV Hilde level stuff if left untouched.

Huh. I don't remember Hilde's moves completely whiffing at close range. Guess I'm just getting old.