GRABS SOUL CALIBUR 5

0VincentRayne0 said:
but I've seen cases where people are grabbed out of moves they are already performing. A break in the grapple is made because the person doing the through pressed the same button as the attack their opponent was doing. So you still think the person should be taking damage even though the throw was obviously lucky. and grab out of moves happen a lot.
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Lucky my ass,the reply is really all here

Lasercakes said:
The throw's active frames hit before the attack's active frames came out. Attacks do not have a special property that protects them from throws and they shouldn't. If he didn't want to get thrown, I guess he chose the wrong attack.
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to not count that if we hit each other(with trade hit animation),who is slashing still do damage,the grabber inflict zero.
So slasher touch first slasher win, grabber touch first grabber "win"(and maybe you break by luck), trade hits slasher win.
Plus standard throws are high
Plus are punishable
Plus range is shorter than average attacks
Plus grabs don't get reward to catch you on ch
Plus the grabber gain it by skill, the grab-breaker gain it totally or partially by luck
Plus you exposed yourself and i punish-slash ->you take damage(maybe even CH), you exposed yourself and i punish-grab ->you have still an hope to break it(by luck)

Damage on throw break? Fuck yeah
 
what if Ivy's advanced throw is still ridiculously long? but like I said before taking damage just for pushing someone away from you is stupid. (whoa strong word there) most damage happens from contact hits. the animation for the throw is not a contact hit. how would you like it if someone put a hand on your should and you quickly brushed it off only to see that you now have a bruise or an injury on that shoulder. I know it's a game and stuff but in areas of being hit this has been full proof in many fighting games for years. I don't think I know any other fighting game where you take damage from being touched besides classics like sonic and mario. imagine how cheap of a tactic this would be online if there was still that button delay thing. now you can't avoid grabs on quick reflex anymore and now you have to resort to breaking the grab instead.
 
I LOVE the grab break damage. I do not agree with the healing streetfighter idea either.

If I am ballsy enough to go up to you and make a grab attempt, and happen to catch you while you are not attacking, ducking, jumping, or stepping in any direction, then I deserve at least a LITTLE bit of damage.
There have been too many times where I have had my grabs broken by good guessers, but the stupid problem was the person who was a good guesser didnt know how to avoid my extremely creative grab antics. And this deprived me of too much damage that cost me numerous matches.

Keep the grab break damage. If you disagree with grab break damage then dont get grabbed at all.

"I love hugs, and firmly believe mine should hurt you." -Grabbybaskets
 
I personally think throws ought to take it all the way to ST level and only allow softens instead of breaks, because that REALLY forces people to think about standing still.

I'm satisfied with this though. I think it's great. I caught your ass, your gonna take a little something for it.
 
I personally really dislike that you take damage from a throw.

I like the feeling of having a perfect defense, It sucks that your getting punished for being correct.
Breaking a grab occasionally may be nothing but luck, but breaking them consistently takes skill. I dont get why you have to take damage when you where skilled enough to read your opponent and anticipate the correct throw.

Dislike this almost as much as i dislike that you take damage while blocking in mk.

Its not all about aggression.
 
Standing still and reacting isn't a skillful defense, it's taking advantage of the fact that you have a 50/50 get out of jail free card. Now that card costs you something, and is no longer free. If those are the kinds of things you want in a game, you ought to be playing Tekken which rewards reaction time as though it was a skill.

Throw breaking isn't a skillful defense. It's like block punishment, or reacting to certain lows- it's expected that you do it in order to be good. It can separate an average player from a decent one, not a good one from a great one. It demonstrates nothing other than the understanding of pressing a button after standing still and seeing an animation, and it's something you can grind out in practice mode. It isn't a big deal.

Baiting a particular attack and punishing it is skillful. Reading the last hit of a string and Guard Impacting is skillful. There is nothing skillful about standing there and breaking a throw. Defensive players, stop patting yourself on the back. You've had it so easy for so long now.

A skillful defense would be reading the throw (yomi), and coming up with an ACTION to beat it rather than taking a 50/50. Seeing a throw animation and inputting a break in SC isn't even hard. You have more than enough time to see the throw, gauge your situation, and educated guess. It's not like this is TTT with 12 frame throw break windows, or VF4 with elaborate throw breaks and 0 frame startup. Throw breaking isn't skillful- it's par for the course.

Any decent player worth their salt knows their opponents throw options in certain situations, and that alone ups the chance from a blind 50/50.

Take your chip and be happy it isn't a soften, is my view.
 
I like how people are making it sounds like grabbing takes skill. Grabbing is probably the most boring form of offense. It's even more bland than turtling.When people watched SC4 they pretty much see poke/grab/poke/grab/grab.

SC4 was a grab fest, and SC5 has doubled this. Bland and boring. So we take chip damage now, and this will some how stop turtlers...mmm no. Learn better offense stop asking for handouts.

I will take that chip damage to the bank. Have you seen how much damage mids do in this game? Ducking is still a stupid option. Good thing quick step completely evades throws.

They should also buff WR moves, make them i15 launchers...punish the shit out of your ass for attempting to spam grab. Next time you will think twice.
 
IdleMind said:
Standing still and reacting isn't a skillful defense, it's taking advantage of the fact that you have a 50/50 get out of jail free card. Now that card costs you something, and is no longer free. If those are the kinds of things you want in a game, you ought to be playing Tekken which rewards reaction time as though it was a skill.

Throw breaking isn't a skillful defense. It's like block punishment, or reacting to certain lows- it's expected that you do it in order to be good. It can separate an average player from a decent one, not a good one from a great one. It demonstrates nothing other than the understanding of pressing a button after standing still and seeing an animation, and it's something you can grind out in practice mode. It isn't a big deal.
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I totally agree with you. I had to learn the hard way at some point when I was still new to Soul Calibur. The best way to avoid getting grabbed is to stay active. No one will survive long standing still in a guarding position.

Part of why they put 8wayrun into Soul Calibur is so people can space themselves from their opponent and will reduce the chances of getting grabbed. The best way to avoid getting grabbed or having to grapple break an opponent is to stay active by 8wayrunning attacking, ducking, jumping ext.

In SC4 you don't see too many people ducking grabs. Instead they are in a standing position waiting to be grabbed so they can try and grapple break. Part of why they put grapple break

damage in SC5, is so people can use other ways to avoid getting grabbed besides doing a
standing guard and waiting for the opponent to grab first or whatever.

I just wanted to point out that you made a great point here......
 
Really? That's how your opponents play the game. No one stands still and waits for you to grab them if they can avoid it. It's interesting how you guys are describing a 50/50 situation in favor of the defender.

You can't react to throw breaks, it's all freaking luck based. Which is why grabs are frowned upon in most fighters. The only time you actually make an actual reaction based decision breaking a grab in SC, is when it rings you out or does incredible damage.

Maybe they should make grabs like tekken, give everyone like 5 different throws with 5 different throw break buttons but you can break them on reaction. You would all complain any way since this is really about your own lack of skill than bad game design.
 
Throw breaks are the equivalent of being able to switch to scissors when you picked rock against paper in RPS. Ideally, if there has to be throw breaking, then it should be made so that you have to guess the throw attempt and not react to the animation.
 
KingAce said:
Really? That's how your opponents play the game. No one stands still and waits for you to grab them if they can avoid it. It's interesting how you guys are describing a 50/50 situation in favor of the defender.
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Grab the opponent take skill/risk/timing/range like many other SC things.

Case A
Throw break is total luck?
Ok you want guyXXX skill get vanished by guyYYY luck. Wich easy to understand, is stupid

Case B
Throw break take also skill/reading/knowledge to increase your chances?
So adding skill/reading/knowledge you raise your chances from 50/50. So you got a 50+?% of free escape from something that's only your fault.
Compared to normal attacks how is'nt favour of the defender?
Defender error -> 50+?% of free escape
This
+
The option to chose a throw to neutralize
example,in clear Raph B+G RO situation trying B break,you're
50% of escape free
50% of be A+Ged, but better than being ROed
100% of don't being ROed
So if the other outsmart you chosing A+G he still chosed the less good option for him

All this help for somebody that as start failed at not being grabbed,wich should be the real defense from grabs

Are we REALLY complaining about lil damage on late version of throw break? Lol
 
ehh I think it's both sides made good valid points in each.. it honestly makes me appreciative that soul cal at least gives you an option to break grabs. lol cuz 50-60 damage is a lot yo! lol

like in soul cal this was my philosophy of grabs...

-if they stand and block too much, i'm grabbing u regardless no matter what.

-if i made a good side step move and have your back, I'm grabbing you. (sometimes your side, depends how I'm feeling though) lol
 
It's in favor of the defender because it has 2 start ups to the attack and in stage 2, the attack could totally be nullified still by a guess after failing to avoid. When playing, I often casually tap A or B repeatedly when ever I block or sense I'm open to being grabbed, and passively I break a LOT of grabs this way. It doesn't take much skill and really all I do is lock out the better option or go random when neither holds significant benefit such as an RO throw that i not in range of RO. I feel this is unfair for the offense as I'm not actually reacting and my guess is almost preplanned. What's even worse is often I'll get free frames on an early break just for doing this.

The issue is mainly that stage 2 of SC's grab system is a guess. There is not always a true layer of yomi often it is only specific to certain scenarios. EX: Ivy A vs B grab. In an RO scenario yes you should yomi and lock out A...but in the middle of the ring it doesn't matter, I will alternate randomly, I can't be read. Why? Because B only does 5 more damage and A gives me a free options on wake up...so I win either way...so why is it the defense can just get lucky and negate my grab entirely on a break when both of us are guessing and not reading? The offense should get some reward and the defense should have the ability to choose which throw they fear more and lock it out. If I get greedy I will have to suffer minimal reward from a break, but my efforts are not completely a waste.

Also....Rock...I mean Bangoo...top tier!
 
blakkmajic said:
ehh I think it's both sides made good valid points in each.. it honestly makes me appreciative that soul cal at least gives you an option to break grabs. lol cuz 50-60 damage is a lot yo!
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It really isn't. If it takes 5 successful throws to kill someone and you have a 50-50 chance of breaking, statistically you'll have to throw attempt me 10 times before KOing me. Good luck getting 10 throw attempts in on me without working for them.
 
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