Hardest Character to master and win with.

[Nukleurfire]

[Big epic long wall of text]

Thanks for the advice Plume, I'll try to work some of those into my game. I guess I was just so far into my belief that Rock had no good moves that I didn't even give myself a chance to experiment.

Why does everyone keep saying Setsuka is hard to win with? She's still high up without JFs. Just using 2A+B, 33B, and 6K is greater than Mina or Rock. A bit of an exaggeration, but still.

 

[Plume]

Setsuka requires precision. That alone makes her more difficult to play than pretty much anyone else.

Most characters have useful moves with an added auto-GI property. Setsuka does not. A+B does nothing unless it impacted something. 66K only GIs if the moon is at the proper angle according to your country and the stars.

Then there are the difficult inputs. Her good punishers are 2143a:B and B+K61B44B+K.

Then there are the combos...
1B:B 214B A+K,B 2143a:B = 68 damage.

In this combo, there are THREE Just Frames. For 68 damage.
You need to input 2143a:B at a very precise time. A few frames too soon and it does the wrong attack. A few frames too late and the opponent has hit the ground already, which means that umbrella can no longer catch them.

Same for 33B aB 33B.
You only have a few frames to input aB. And same for the second 33B. You must not be too soon nor too late for the same reasons as above.

Most of her most damaging combos end with 2143a:B.
Unless the player chooses easier, less rewarding combos.



...And another reason why she's difficult to play is that she has fairly bad mixups. Most of her lows are nothing scary. Her biggest strength is block punishment and step punishment. THIS requires good reflexes, knowledge, and a good defense.

If you want a contrast, Mitsurugi's game is all about endless, speedy 50/50. You don't need to know where the block button is if the opponent can't find a way to stop you and pin you down.

 

[vane505]

Plume

Isn't it just two JFs in that combo?

But I agree, about everything with Setsuka requires somewhat strict timing and execution (although I don't think the lack of auto-GI-from-attack is a decider of how hard Setsuka is to use/master).

33B: You must be able to react if it's CH/NH. Then, on CH, you have to execute a somewhat challenging combo (like CH 33B, 2143B:B, 2143~a:B (I think this is the most effective combo)).

1B:B-combo: B&B-combo that requires two hard inputs.

2143~a Her punisher, unsafe on block and somewhat hard to input. RO very well. Easiest to use as punisher if you are forced into FC on block.

B+K: Not very hard to land the whole string. Can either RO or do ~95 damage. -14 on block(?).

Lows/Throws: Her 1AA is hard to block, and does good damage, but the range is terrible (also, somewhat tricky to land the JF). Her throws (except B+G) doesn't have very good range (I believe?), but they are all very good when landed. 214B+G can RO well, requires JF, does great damage, great for wallgame. As Plume mentioned, her mixup isn't to scary mid- and long-range, but in close-range, she has alot to dish out.

The thing is, while these strings/moves etc. are somewhat hard to pull off, it's also her B&B, so you will have to execute these very consistently.

 

[hotnikkelz]

maxi and taki

 

[Plume]

Plume

Isn't it just two JFs in that combo?

Yes.
But since you have to input the last attack at a very exact time (not a few frames sooner nor later), you can count it as a JF as well.

But I agree, about everything with Setsuka requires somewhat strict timing and execution (although I don't think the lack of auto-GI-from-attack is a decider of how hard Setsuka is to use/master).

Personally I attach importance to it, but it's just me...
I like to take Amy as an example. She has some moves that follow her auto-GI moves. She can just throw B+K nearly anywhere and it might just so happen to GI something, even though she only did it because it was required for the followup attack.

...But yes, it's not a terribly important point.

Her throws (except B+G) doesn't have very good range (I believe?), but they are all very good when landed.

People say that Setsuka has pretty good throw range... (I for one think that it's so-so...)

214B+G can RO well, requires JF

You don't need the JF version of Umbrella(2143aB) but you do need precise timing like in other combos, so it can count as a JF anyway.

 

[pineapplejuice]

i think i said setsuka earlier one, but ive just started learning xianghua and she definatly gets my vote now, although shes a lot of fun im finding i need to work pretty hard for what should be easy wins. its early days with her at mo but she seams to have much more depth than most chars.