Ivy Online/Lag Tactics

i need to forfeit all them victories can't believe i use to put this move in my gameplay lol that's all changed now.
 
It's still a good move, it's just scenario specific; the issue being people online don't treat it as such. If you're using the move as an evasive counter against characters that can't punish on hit then it's validated, but still to be used sparingly.
 
^I've already done 90% of her data, its just down to her IMP's (which last a life time) and her TC/TJ properties which are always bothersome to get out the way...
 
Good! Let me know when you're done, I will then update the first post in FD thread.
 
I've got a stupid question and please don''t criticize me for it. :(
Yesterday, a remark was given to me that WP 11a is a lag tactic move. That's the first time anyone complained about that move ever since I started playing online last year in May. To me it didn't seem like that person was right because the animation for the start of the move (you know, the preparation) is long enough and even less experienced people than me were known to block it regularly. More experienced ones simply let it whiff or jump over it.

So just a quick answer, I don't want to bother you people if this is a small thing...
 
It depends on the connection. WP 11A is her slowest low attack but on a bad 4 bar connection it's not that easy to block it (it's still possible, though)The only Ivy lows that can't be considered lag tactics are:

SW FC 3B
SW 214K
SW/WP/CL 2K

The rest is either borderline lagtactic: SW 22K, SW 2A+B, WP 1A or WP FC 3B (these can be blocked on reaction but it's difficult so lot of people get hit by them offline) or lag tactic SE A+K, WP 1B (very easy to block offline, yet get a huge boost from lag). WP 11A is debatable but I'd still consider it a lag tactic since it has almost zero chance of working offline unless when used as a TC move, but online it will work much more often.
 
Maedhros said:
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This is a common misconception. Lows are "legit" because they can be used offline successfully. And they can be used offline because they are fast and hard to see. Mitsu 2KB(Unseeable) and Amy 2B+K(Borderline unseeable) are "legit" lows because they work offline. Slow lows hit online because it's online. It just means you're lagging them worse, BUT the impact time of a low isn't a perfect indicator for how hard it is to see either. The strength of a low comes from the first point in the animation where you can recognize a low is coming. That's why Talim WC A(i41) and WC B+K(i39) can hit you even in lag.

You can definitely profit unfairly from "gray area moves" online, but they still work often enough that removing them from your game entirely would be statistically cheating yourself out of damage. In most connections I'd say they are completely free damage. This is why online is bad. It's not your risk/reward perception that makes you decide what you do, but your personal standard of fairness.

Also, just because a low is "legit", never forget that online is online. People consciously choose to take different actions even with fairness in mind. I personally know sometimes that I cannot punish a whiff in time, so I opt to use a breakable throw instead. A low may be unseeable and all that, but your mannerisms in your play style might be telegraphing that you're about to throw out that low. Even if your opponent knows what you're about to they still might not be able to capitalize on it in time.

TL;DR: Online is shittier than your worst nightmare.
 
I feel like SW 2A+B is not a lag tactic, its a good strong low with short range, being i25 and has a hidden start-up, arguments anyone?
 
It's reactable. Everything that people can react to offline is either lag tactic or borderline. That doesn't mean it can't be used online because it's a great tech trap after CL 4B for example (catches all tech, does not require any delay) but other than that I would personally feel guilty for using this move for any other purposes than tech traps.
 
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