Just Guard

Seems like it would be aligning active frames on disadvantage... like Guard Impact, but more precise.

Here's my JG practice setup:

Movement 1 - Stand Normal
Movement 2 - Attack (replay, BB, CE, etc.)

This way, I start by hitting a K or something, and then I have enough advantage to watch and time it out.

I've been practicing with Pyrrha's CE. At first, it seemed pretty damn hard, but I'm starting to get it.

I think the safest thing to do is block the first hit, Just Guard the second, then step the third and punish hard.
 
Im not even sure if you can JG the first hit of Phyrra or Maxi's CE but the two following strikes are definitely doable. I also think one hit CEs like Pat or Nightmare can't be JG but maybe my timing is ass. I do know that the computer won't do it when you set them to JG.
 
So what I'm not understanding, is that if you can't do this after holding guard, then how does the system allow you to JG a string like BB? That's REALLY all I want it for, and that's the one thing I can't figure out how to do. I suppose I'll go practice it more against Asta though, lol. Nice work Drake.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
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Thank you kindly sir.

You can do this after holding guard, and at the same time, you can't. There's a time limit- apparently 29 frames? You'll probably have to feel it out.

Just Guarding BBs is kind of tricky, as when you Just Guard the first B you have to give as much time as you can before you go for the second Just Guard attempt.

Just Guarding freezes the opponent for 5 frames, which should explain the extra time needed to fulfill the 29 frame gap from first B recovery to second B impact.
Basically, your finger has to stay far away from the G button until it's time, or:

1) You'll just regular guard.
2) You'll get hit.

Assuming that you won't hit the next Just Guard (which may happen under pressure) some BBs are slow enough to slip in aGI moves. After Just Guarding almost all Bs you can Guard Impact the second B.

Of course, a Just Guard into a Guard Impact into a successful combo when put on the spot is probably going to require a good amount of foresight.

Reave said:
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The computer will not Just Guard CEs (which is a shame).

However,


Almost all CEs can be Just Guarded.

Whether or not this is practical is another story. The "flash" denies any inputs- on CEs like a Pat's Just Guarding may very well be frame perfect.

(I don't have a p-stick setup like noodalls to confirm this, however.)
 
DrakeAldan said:
re-snip.
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Ok so blocking someone like Patroklos B, then just guarding the second hit isn't going to be possible? I guess that makes sense from a design standpoint, lol. Good to know, that way I don't get frustrated trying it anymore. I'll work on using it for some of the slower strings, I hear Pyrrha 66B EX is a good one to learn.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
Ok so blocking someone like Patroklos B, then just guarding the second hit isn't going to be possible?
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It is possible.

When you block the first hit, your finger has to leave G as quickly as you can to give JG cooldown enough time to expire. For this reason, "red parrying" a BB is not going to be easy under pressure- but it is possible.
 
DrakeAldan said:
It is possible.

When you block the first hit, your finger has to leave G as quickly as you can to give JG cooldown enough time to expire. For this reason, "red parrying" a BB is not going to be easy under pressure- but it is possible.
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So would I attempt something like, release guard, then tap as late as possible, release and then hold it again just in case? You CAN still double tap guard to get the brief JG window, plus a safer guard right afterwards, correct?
 
DrakeAldan said:
It is possible.

When you block the first hit, your finger has to leave G as quickly as you can to give JG cooldown enough time to expire. For this reason, "red parrying" a BB is not going to be easy under pressure- but it is possible.
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Right. Your finger has to be removed from the Guard button within 4 frames. It all depends on the frame data of the string in question. Unfortunately, current frame data only provides the impact frames for the initial attack in a canned string and not every move in the sequence. That said, I doubt the re-attempt-exemption frames are as generous as 29 frames. Were it that large, you wouldn't be able to JG the second attack in a string like AA or BB after guarding the initial hit unless the second attack had at least a 29 frame startup, which would be absurd.


KowtowRobinson said:
So would I attempt something like, release guard, then tap as late as possible, release and then hold it again just in case? You CAN still double tap guard to get the brief JG window, plus a safer guard right afterwards, correct?
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No. You must commit to JG by releasing the Guard button within 4 frames of the JG window (which also seems to be around 2-4 frames).
 
Kimosabae said:
That said, I doubt the re-attempt-exemption frames are as generous as 29 frames. Were it that large, you wouldn't be able to JG the second attack in a string like AA or BB after guarding the initial hit unless the second attack had at least a 29 frame startup, which would be absurd.
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I know it doesn't sound right either. I guess noodalls has to do some more testing to be sure.

Perhaps the parameters change with strings. I know that, depending on speed, Just Guard will repeat itself automatically if you Just Guard the first hit of a very fast multi-hit move...

KowtowRobinson said:
So would I attempt something like, release guard, then tap as late as possible, release and then hold it again just in case? You CAN still double tap guard to get the brief JG window, plus a safer guard right afterwards, correct?
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Kimosabae is correct. The "safer" your Just Guard attempt is, the less likely it is to work.
 
I guarantee you the problem people are having with JG is they don't realize (or emphasize) the fact that the G button has to be released quickly. Same problem people are having with Yoshi's aB+K and aPat's JF Twister.


Another thing worth noting: In regards to rapid, multi-hitting, single attacks, only one JG input is needed. I.e. Cervy's 3A and WR A+B. In the former, one JG input will Just Guard both hits in the attack. In regards to the latter, the first six hits will be automatically JG'd, but the delayed 7th hit will need another manual input.

I think this potentially implies two things:

1. The JG system is more intricate than we thought. There is a separate system in place that gives priority to JG over certain multi-hitting attacks (because the developers knew JGing certain rapid, multi-hitting attacks would be impossible to JG otherwise, due to the JG input restrictions).

2. The one I think is more likely: the JG window is larger than we think it is. One JG input satisfies the first 6 hits in Cervy's WR A+B only because they land within the JG window. The last hit follows outside said window, requiring an additional JG input.
 
http://www.mediafire.com/?6r49a639lbqvg32

Two sets of jpegs, one shows JG with appropirate timing, second set shows JG with same timing, buggered by pressing G immediately before hit and guarding.

Without doing detailed analysis, how can you tell if your second tap of G is connecting before (and guarding) or after (and allowing JG).

Second tap buggers JG.
 
About the cooldown thing (29 frames before you try again a just guard), i suppose it's if you try but dont get a just guard. If you happen to get a just guard, there is no cooldown.

The reason why i said that is i notice in training mode it's impossible to make the cpu just guard only the second hit of a move. Example you space yourself to whiff the first hit and hit the cpu with the second hit but instead of just guard he will get hit because he cannot just guard anymore. In fact he try to just guard the firt hit too and after the cooldown affect him
 
Reave said:
Im not even sure if you can JG the first hit of Phyrra or Maxi's CE but the two following strikes are definitely doable. I also think one hit CEs like Pat or Nightmare can't be JG but maybe my timing is ass. I do know that the computer won't do it when you set them to JG.
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I haven't tried with Maxi's CE but I can JG all 3 hits of Pyrrha's CE pretty regularly so you can definitely do the first hit.

You can also JG Nightmare's. I'm pretty sure the only CEs that you can't JG are Ivy and Asta (sicne they are throws) and Dampierre's because his only activates if it guard impacts first.

You probably can JG Viola's but I imagine that finding the correct timing would be horribly difficult.
 
Not sure about that one, actually. I know it can be done, but I've heard that the only one you need to JG is the first one and the rest will be done automatically. I don't know how true that is though.
 
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