Kilik vs Raphael

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I'm having a very tough time on defeating Raphael players. . .
Does anyone have some advice when playing against them,any advice would be appreciated?

Thanks!
 
I think Raph is a pretty tough guy, he sucks the blood and dosent afraid of anything.

that being said, I think that once you get a feel for it, its not the worst matchup in the world. One of Kiliks strong points is that he dosent have too many HORRIBLE matchups because he can really take advantage of clever placement of moves and spacing perhaps better than any other character.

some things to look out for when fighting raph;

Prep A will interrupt anything you have forever for free and make you eat 60 ish damage, so dont try to interupt his transition into prep. we arent taki, we are kilik. Same thing can be said for Prep B/BB. its not as clear cut as this but this is a pretty general thing to remember.

Prep K is blockable on reaction, so keep an eye out for it without forcing yourself to expect it, because thats what raph lives for. when you start seeing it consistantly, try jumping it instead of blocking it. While were at it, dont just jump it, Asura jump it, although that might literally kill your opponent with manliness.

Prep into VE seems scary at first, but isnt that bad. my favorite things that come out of VE is a mixup between the grab and VE A. VE A gives advantage on block, but its a mid, high string that you can easily get used to seeing and WS B raph for it every time. Trying for even more manliness? Asura dance will jump through the grab, Gi the A, and hit raph out of any shadow dodge nonsence. it might even beat the K, which isnt that fast and is REALLY unsafe. come tho think of it it will probably GI the kick too.

some useful notes. FC 1B will duck under raphs 236B, 3B, 4B, 6BB, and everything else in the world.

hope that helps a little bit :)
 
I find that Raph is not too hard to evade either really with 1B and 4A if you time it right.

The hardest part of the match up for me is the fact that you cannot really space Raph with his Godly BB.

He falls into FC B and traps with WS B as much as most characters, even more since I don't see many people abusing 2A with him.
 
Thank you all for your help!
I've been testing out you guys advice & hopefully I can get used to them.

I gotta agree that it is hard to space Raph out...
If there's anything else I can know,please share! All advice is appreciated.
 
The hardest part of the match up for me is the fact that you cannot really space Raph with his Godly BB.
.

Nah, its good, but he cant space with kilik. The trick is to stand JUST out of the first B's range, thats the one that tracks. you can step the second B rather easily and punish. Lots of raphs overestimate his BB, which is really good, but its not by any means godly. its like -12 on hit or block, so you dont have to be afraid of it really as long as you're patient and can space yourself.
 
Nah, its good, but he cant space with kilik. The trick is to stand JUST out of the first B's range, thats the one that tracks. you can step the second B rather easily and punish. Lots of raphs overestimate his BB, which is really good, but its not by any means godly. its like -12 on hit or block, so you dont have to be afraid of it really as long as you're patient and can space yourself.

You sure its the 1st B that tracks? I was under the impression the 2nd B had 100% tracking and even though its -12 on block, there is nothing that Kilik can dish out that will guarantee damage afterwards anyway.

Another thread relating this: http://www.8wayrun.com/f30/a-good-counter-after-aas-and-bbs-t250/
 
You sure its the 1st B that tracks? I was under the impression the 2nd B had 100% tracking and even though its -12 on block, there is nothing that Kilik can dish out that will guarantee damage afterwards anyway.

Another thread relating this: http://www.8wayrun.com/f30/a-good-counter-after-aas-and-bbs-t250/

Yes, I am sure, I've tested it, but don't take my word for it, that's what practice mode is for. Record raphs bb and find out how easy to step the 2nd b is for yourself.

Also, while it ts true kilik can't punish him, almost any move of kiliks will beat almost anymove of raphs. That means breathing room and a free mixup
 
raph has range but kilik has more. keep him to the outside. bust out some of the great long range lows he's got and keep them guessing from outside his comfort zone and wait for him to slip up. basic strategy really but it works wonder if you're patient
 
So, I just realized 33A is REALLY good. I was fighting my friend playing raph and pretty much all he could do was 2k when he thought it was coming, and that's a really good risk/reward for the killk player. Try abusing it, it seems great. I was trying to help him beat me but I couldn't find much he could do about it other than guessing 2k or 2a when really close.
 
Use iWSB! And obviously he can be stepped easier now. Don't spam Asura or anything unsafe against him, he relies on block/whiff punishment to get damage opportunities. 1K or anything fast after getting hit by one of his low pokes, they're all terrible on hit. Kilik can now control space better if he's patient, and the damage is in his favor.
 
I have noticed while playing against Raph that he is extremely suspect to side step punishing. I have been able to get 22_88B after a lot of moves for Raph that break distance.
 
4B into Prep A is interuptable

but

3B into Prep A isnot

You can either side step or iWSB to cause major damage, Prep A will not stun you when you are in crouch state.

The third part of Prep BBB can be Asura Gied.

Also when he enter in VE, Asura is your main mixup Killer, beware if he does other thing.

236B have to be punished by 6AA.

And the last part of Prep BBB:B is stepable / punishable / auto-giable but you have to react before :D (third hit)

Also you will have better success steping to your LEFT vs Raphael. Except 4A.
 
You sure its the 1st B that tracks? I was under the impression the 2nd B had 100% tracking and even though its -12 on block, there is nothing that Kilik can dish out that will guarantee damage afterwards anyway.

Another thread relating this: http://www.8wayrun.com/f30/a-good-counter-after-aas-and-bbs-t250/

Lol, that thread clearly confirms that the 2nd BB doesn't track. I was wrong with my info because during my testing I wasn't familiar with the step. I didn't correct myself because BLDave's reply was right. Lol.
 
Now that the patch is out and Raph pretty much lost all of his tracking tools,is he easier to beat now? Or is there some things I best better watch out for?
Cause as of late,NO ONE has been using Raph.
 
Raph is easier to beat now. Hes still a fairly solid character that can be great in the right hands, but there isnt much of a reason to not just step versus him.
 
yeah post patch:

left step >>>>>>>>>>>>>> prep

So when you see a prep transition, just step to your left. If you step left and raph does prep K, it is a free back throw.
 
Yea I had some trouble against Raph also on the higher rank characters.
They like to stay right up on you aggressively.
 
yeah post patch:

left step >>>>>>>>>>>>>> prep

So when you see a prep transition, just step to your left. If you step left and raph does prep K, it is a free back throw.

yeah this as actually made him not solid at all
he lost his BB massive tracking
most if not all of his quick moves are stepable(a 12 year old could do it)
and his 66A ghosts right steppers
 
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