leixia newbye need help ...

N

newalbert

[08] Mercenary
hi，dear everyone，Im in trouble when at middle range ...

when I face mitsu，cerv，pyrrah and ivy，they always keep me at a very awkward middle range,
vertical eary be steped and hori are too short :(

4A, 3A+B ... these step killers are tooooo short, 3B, FC 3B etc haven't any tracing...
leixia is short of dash move and zone move, only 44A and 66AA sometimes worked but 44A is slow and 66A's first hit is High ...

any suggestions ? how to break the shit range ...
 
Leixia really doesn't have a fast long range mid hori. The best you'll get is 22A, 66A, 44A or WS A to catch mid range step. 22A and 66A are Highs, but they're still fast enough to kill step if you predict. If they are doing TC moves (Pyrrha 22B/22K etc) You can just step forward and 2A or 2K, or bait it out and punish. 44A is slow, but if they block you do a bit of guard damage.

There's also 1A as well. It's slow, but gives great CH reward. And again, if they block it, you get guard damage.
There's no guaranteed strategy, but remember you don't always have to move in with attacks. You can simply step forward or sidestep to close in. (Leixia actually does well at mid range vs Pyrrha).
 
66K is fast enough that even if they're outside of its range you can dash into range and use it. If they're consistently hitting you during your approach before any of your options can hit, it's because they're attacking preemptively. In this situation you want to bait their attack by feinting a dash in and backdashing. The downside to 66K is that it has a weak side where it can be stepped. If they're stepping in response to your dash ins then 66AA being high/mid won't matter because they can't duck while quickstepping and quickstepping is the most consistent way of stepping 66K. Stepping into TC attacks will generally result in them getting hit by 66K.
 
thanx a lot ...
66k is good, leixia, always be a brain killer, but intresting ...
@zero, 22A and 66A are all High, but pyrrha's stab is TC, how to say leixia does well at mid range vs pyrrha ?
 
PS: mitsu is very very strong, long, middle and short range, mixup, damage, even safe... leixia lose to him completely, very sadly...
 
If Pyrrha stabs recklessly, punish her with 6KK

At mid range, I usually find myself trying to play a whiffing game with her. Try using moves like 3K and then stepping back; many times Pyrrha will use attacks that you can punish hard when she whiffs. Be careful though, a smart Pyrrha will punish backstep.

Be very careful stepping against Pyrrha in general. She's got some very good step kill like 3A and 66A.



Newalbert, if you have Xbox live, I can sit down with you later this week and help tutor you on some of your problems.
 
newalbert said:
@zero, 22A and 66A are all High, but pyrrha's stab is TC, how to say leixia does well at mid range vs pyrrha ?
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Pyrrha's stab (236B) has no TC.
However, Pyrrha's TC moves (66A, 22K) are still a pain in the ass.

It's still a winnable match-up though. The only (or main) reason why it's in advantage of Pyrrha is her higher damage output (which is the reason why Leixia has 4:6 matchups against 80% of the cast imo).
 
dem nerf hammers hit Leixia too hard. she used to be viable and now look at her. It's so hard to win with her and in tourney high level play you don't even have to worry about her being picked.

but Pyrrha's 236K techs most of Leixia's moves except her kicks. the best thing to do with Leixia is constantly changed how you play with her. keep the opponent guessing. best mixup she has is the 66B and 66BbB. also if you catch side steppers with WRA then it's a guaranteed throw mixup. that's probably Leixia's best friend. Throws. do them. A lot.
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
keep the opponent guessing. best mixup she has is the 66B and 66BbB.
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66B into A or another stepkiller and 66BB is kinda a mix-up. 66B and 66BbB isn't. In fact, I wouldn't call 66BbB a mix-up at all since most high-level players can sidestep it on reaction (instead of having to, you know, kinda guess when it comes to 66BB vs. 66B -> A or something).

Frayhua said:
Leixia wasn't nerfed hard, she's still viable, she can break your opponent's guard very fast, she has great frame traps & is the safest character in the game.
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Oh, she was hit hard. She's no longer even top tier when it comes to guard breaking and she can't get that much damage off a guardbreak, anyway. She has to expend 1.5 bars to get the same damage as most characters can get off 1 bar or even half a bar from a guard break.

She's not very viable anymore, in my opinion. Heck, people have begun to place her in bottom tier, finally. When you pit her against the likes of the Greeks, Mitsurugi, Viola and Natsu, she's a goner. She simply cannot reverse mix-up Natsu because Natsu has the frames to beat pretty much every single reverse mix-up Leixia has. Viola is just a constant uphill battle. If you get hit by pretty much anything, half off your lifebar will be a goner, while Viola can play recklessly against Leixia without risking much in way of damage (So what, you say? Other characters have to content with the same problem? Well, yes, but they have better damage, which means they have an easier time making up the damage difference). The Greeks outplay Leixia at every turn, in every facet and their aGIs work against pretty much all of Leixia's BnB moves. Mitsurugi is basically Leixia, only better at pretty much everything.

And these characters are the among most used characters, thus rendering Leixia unviable. There's a reason why we rarely, if ever, see any Leixia players place at major tournaments, and it's not simply because of lacking player skill among the top Leixia mainers. Leixia guesses wrong? 1/4th of the lifebar is gone, 1/3rd or more off a counter-hit (with no CEs, BEs or throws involved). Someone guessed wrong against Leixia? 1/6th (plus some change) of their lifebar gone, 1/5th (and some change) off a counterhit (with no BEs, CEs or grabs involved). And at the top echelons of play, people aren't going to guess wrong often enough for Leixia to be able to make up the damage difference.
 
in my round, damage is not the biggest problem ... for me, the most important thing is how to step smart and how to lock your opponent, at the middle range, i just freeze there holding G ... @seditious, i am psn now, maybe next week, i can Xbox live
 
newalbert said:
@zero, 22A and 66A are all High, but pyrrha's stab is TC, how to say leixia does well at mid range vs pyrrha ?
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Remember, just because Pyrrha has answers to Leixia's moves, it doesn't make them useless. 22A is a high, but if Pyrrha steps at all, it will hit and push her back. If she's coming in with TC, BB and 2B will hit her. If she sidesteps AND TCs (22B/22K) these are shorter range moves that if baited can be whiff punished with 3B/iFC 3B and such.

You have to include movement in your spacing too. Most of the time, Leixia can backstep Pyrrha's mid/low mixups after making her block a safe move. 3K will keep her outside of 1K/Throw range and allow movement on block. 2B and BB are good to stop her running back in. And so on.

She can out poke Pyrrha at mid range with 6B, BB, 2B, 22A, etc. and the like while making Pyrrha's faster attacks, (1K, 3B, AA, 66A, etc) whiff. Pyrrha needs slower attacks to cover this range. Leixia has 66K/6[6]K, 22A and 3B that all reach farther than every fast poke Pyrrha has.

newalbert said:
in my round, damage is not the biggest problem ... for me, the most important thing is how to step smart and how to lock your opponent, at the middle range, i just freeze there holding G
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Exactly. Smart stepping, both retreating and approaching, make Leixia's midrange game what it is. Pokes followed by movement or pokes followed by more pokes will frustrate Pyrrha into trying to wait for a whiff or taking a gamble by pushing buttons.
 
FallenAngelII said:
And at the top echelons of play, people aren't going to guess wrong often enough for Leixia to be able to make up the damage difference.
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I want to address this, only because, I feel like even with your points, you're missing the bigger picture. Thing is, Leixia is at a major disadvantage if we're talking straight up guessing. But there's just more to the game and the strategy then that. You want to try to minimize the amount of guessing overall, regardless of character.

This is basically going down the road of adaptation and conditioning, which is an essay in itself, but here's the long-and-short of it.
1. You use her speed and safety (along with JG if you must) to frustrate your opponent, which creates opportunities to move and whiff punish.
2. You use their hesitation against them by applying guard pressure

It's not "rock-paper-scissors". The game's about making your opponent play into your strategy; not just who outguesses who.
 
Like constantly baiting viola to use 3B and 44A......and shutting down the moves when they use them out of frustration....
 
Slade said:
Stabs are 3B punishable. Pyrrha doesn't give out free damage often so I advocate taking the 3B → CE whenever a stab is blocked.
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When did this change? The last patch? Didn't it use to be -14/-15?

ZeroEffect317 said:
This is basically going down the road of adaptation and conditioning, which is an essay in itself, but here's the long-and-short of it.
1. You use her speed and safety (along with JG if you must) to frustrate your opponent, which creates opportunities to move and whiff punish.
2. You use their hesitation against them by applying guard pressure
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Yes, I realize that this is true. But that's where the "Natsu has the frames to shut Leixia down" comes in. Several characters have the moves and frames to shut down Leixia's attempts at conditioning. You can't condition worth manure if any attempt at moving after a -2 will result in you eating a mid that's either a horizontal or just has a big enough hitbox that you can't step it and that's fast enough to catch any and all attempts at moving, including 44B and/or safe enough they can block the 44B. Also, it's safe on block, most of the time.
So... condition away. You'll just eat punishment each time.

Also, there are characters who don't actually get frustrated by Leixia much because they can inflict equal amounts of guard damage on Leixia while staying equally (or more) safe. So they'll just let you do your little -2 mix-ups 'til they feel confident enough to interrupt and start their own mix-up/pressure.

I have never even once seen an Alexandra being frustrated by Leixia.

And, again, if you turn it into a game of guardbreaking and just straight-up slug match (reverse mix-ups hoping you'll catch them), Leixia will lose, every time (unless she's playing against, I don't know, Raphael or something). In a game of guardbreaking, Leixia gets mediocre to sub-par damage off a guardbreak when compared to every single other character in the game. So if you try to play a game of minimized guessing and just mutual guard pressure, your guard will eventually get broken. Theirs will too. But they will come out the victor, whether either side uses meter and/or walls or not.

If you turn it into a slug-match, trading mix-ups, Leixia still loses because of her sub-par damage output. If you reverse mix-up like crazy, eventually, you'll eat a punisher when you guess wrong and they guess right. A single move on CH from any character who isn't Leixia, even without a combo, is often the equivalent of 3 of Leixia's reverse mix-up moves. So unless they, again, just guess wrong a lot more than you, Leixia's going to lose in a slug-match.

You can try to condition them any way you like, but what exactly can your conditioning do? Trick them into moving when they shouldn't? Trick them into not retaliating when they can and continue your pressure? It might work once. Or twice. Maybe three times. But eventually, they will adapt, either right away or at future tournaments. Leixia's metagame is limited. This is irrefutable. No matter how much conditioning you employ, a lot of characters can shut down whatever shennanigans you try if the players you face know enough about Leixia.

I hold no delusions about my skills as an SCV-player. I readily admit I'm crap all the time. Yet I often win or at least come close to winning against Leixia players who can beat playesr I could never beat (even if this is only online, as I live in a region where no one actually plays SCV on a higher level offline). Why? Because I know Leixia's weaknesses. I'm bad at guessing. My reaction time is bad. I get screwed over by lag because of my bad reaction time and just an inability to deal with lag. But if I'm facing Leixia, it's like my muscle-memory takes over. I once faced a Leixia who favored 6[A]. Every single time they performed 6[A], I would BB them in the face on reaction. I randomly 44A+B Leixia's into GI's for absolutely no reason other than muscle memory. I don't always come out of these fights winning, because, as I just admitted, I'm crap. But most Leixia shennanigans won't work against me because I simply know her well enough not to fall for them.

To win as Leixia, you simply have to be much better than your opponent at the overall game. You have to overcome Leixia's deficits by having superior mindgames and guessing right twice or three times as much as your opponent (which is actually part of mindgames, but whatever)
 
FallenAngelII said:
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Basically what I'm getting from you is, "if Leixia does Move A and the opponent does a Counter A, Leixia loses... and if she does Move B, the opponent can just Counter B." Which would be correct, as by this example, your opponent is 100%reading your mind completely. Obviously, you'd have no chance against a mind reader, even if you use Mitsu or Cervy's retarded damage.

Guardbreaking is a mindgame in itself. Think about it. Who wants their guard broken to receive about 100 dmg with CE, (which you should always have by then anyway), or a free loss to RO/Wall combo near the edge. What more does she need in that area? Astaroth damage?

Leixia's "shenanigans" aren't supposed to work against knowledgeable opponents. That's why they don't work on you. And trust me, if you do everything on auto-pilot, as you say you do, vs any smart Leixia, you'll die...fast.

This is not an analysis on how good/scrubby you are. Anyone can take a few games even vs the "top players". Look at me. I can go head to head with top players, and WIN with Leixia. I'm a good player, sure. But does this fact suddenly make me the absolute best player in the world? No. So that's that. Take from it what you will. Or don't, and just be miserable about it.
 
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