leixia newbye need help ...

[FallenAngelII]

Basically what I'm getting from you is, "if Leixia does Move A and the opponent does a Counter A, Leixia loses... and if she does Move B, the opponent can just Counter B."

No, what I'm saying is that certain characters have moves that catch both of Leixia's moves (A and B). No reading of minds needed. Just throw it out and Leixia gets hit if she tries to move.

Guardbreaking is a mindgame in itself. Think about it. Who wants their guard broken to receive about 100 dmg with CE, (which you should always have by then anyway), or a free RO/Wall combo near the edge. What more does she need in that area? Astaroth damage?

The point is that despite what some people are claiming, unless I'm much mistaken, Leixia isn't exactly a Top Tier guardbreaker. She's somewhat average, perhaps above average. So against most foes, she's going to not inflict more guardbreak damage than her opponent, it will be pretty equal. Which means that if Leixia gets a free 100 dmg combo, wall combo and/or RO combo, the opponent will get one as well, only theirs will be much more damaging. You speak of Leixia's strength as if no one else possesses them. Whatever strengths Leixia possesses, a lot of other characters, most notably the Top Tier (i.e. often the most played characters) possesses as well, sometimes in greater quantities than Leixia does.

The one thing Leixia excels at above all else is safety and reverse mix-ups, but that doesn't mean much when she gains so little off successful reads! In my opinion, her strengths simply cannot overcome her weaknesses. When was the last time a Leixia placed Top 5 in a major? Or even Top 10?

Condition and adapt all you want, the opponent will do the same. And at the top echelons of play, Leixia will more often than not lose out to most characters on the roster. She might be able to take a match or two, heck sometimes even a set or two. But her opponents will adapt, sometimes mid-tournament, and then she's a goner.

Leixia's "shenanigans" aren't supposed to work against knowledgeable opponents.

That's my point. Agains the top echelon of players, Leixia's reverse mix-ups won't work. Which leaves us what, exactly? Slug-fests and guessing games. Which Leixia will lose.

That's why they don't work on you. And trust me, if you do everything on auto-pilot, as you say you do, vs any smart Leixia, you'll die...fast.

I don't mean that my brain just randomly does moves on prediction, I mean that I react much faster to Leixia's moves. I will aGI aGI-able moves. I will duck highs. I will AA/BB whenever it will hit, etc. And Leixia's more open than most because most of her pressure comes from reverse mix-ups, to which I will nail Leixia in the face if a Leixia player tries to reverse mix-up me too much.

 

[EyeofCalamity]

If leixia is that bad to you fallen then why do you still play her? Despite what people say about zwei and raph I still use them to this day and those two are not even bad chars just most people demote them to be bad on paper.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

When was the last time a Leixia placed Top 5 in a major? Or even Top 10?

- Shinji at CEO (3rd),
- Kalas at EBO(4th),
- Hyrul(Age of Truth) at EBO (2nd),
- & Myself at East Coast Throwdown and Summer Jam (both 5th). And 3rd/4th at various other tournaments.

She might be able to take a match or two, heck sometimes even a set or two.

And that's all you need in a tournament. Suddenly doesn't look so daunting anymore.

 

[FallenAngelII]

- Shinji at CEO (3rd),
- Kalas at EBO(4th),
- Hyrul(Age of Truth) at EBO (2nd),
- & Myself at East Coast Throwdown and Summer Jam (both 5th). And 3rd/4th at various other tournaments.

Did Hyrul play Leixia only at EBO? Because I think he plays other characters as well. I stand corrected then. Maybe I should've specified the "super"-majors with the top players from pretty much all regions, with huge pots, such as EVO. Notably absent from your list of majors where Leixias have placed is EVO, by the way.

I'm not trying to downplay the skills of any of the above players (placing with Leixia? That takes some major skill), but CEO lacked quiet a few high profile players (chiefly the usual suspects when it comes to taking majors and EVO events). They were more like regional majors, instead of national majors. In my opinion, Leixia will never be able to place at a "national" major.

And that's all you need in a tournament. Sudden;y doesn't look so daunting anymore.

But the thing is that you can't win tournaments with her, which is what I measure viability in. Being able to take a match or two or a set or two doesn't mean much if you can't win entire tournaments with her. Sometimes, if you're among the best players in the world and play a near flawless game, you might (might) be able to place and win money. But you'll never be able to win (super)-majors with the character.

If leixia is that bad to you fallen then why do you still play her? Despite what people say about zwei and raph I still use them to this day and those two are not even bad chars just most people demote them to be bad on paper.

Because I'm not a tierwhore. I won't switch characters simply so I can win more. I don't play fighting games simply for the sake of winning tournaments, I play them if I think they're fun. I like the way Leixia plays. She still plays the way Xianghua played (kinda) and I mained Xianghua for SC's 2-4 (I never really played I, mostly because it was before my time). I've tried tierwhoring (other game series). It bored me to tiers to pick up the braindead Top Tiers simply for the sake of winning. I was never able to really put my heart into them.

If they'd made Leixia too different from Xianghua, I probably would've switched as the character would've held very little value to me in that case. I'm just sick and tired of people talking as if Leixia isn't a sup-par character. "She wasn't hit badly by the nerf hammer" (Oh really?). "She is still viable" (Depends on what you mean by viable). "Her ridiculous safety makes up for everything else!" (No it doesn't!). "She's among the best guardbreakers in the game!" (Not anymore, she isn't and who cares?! Off a guard break, she can get the same amount of damage as most good characters can get off a single CH). "She among the best meter-builders in the game!" (Not anymore!). It's like most people are going off pre-patch Leixia, who was pretty good. She simply isn't that good anymore. And, really, there's no reason pretending like she is.

If you like playing as Leixia, yay you! But let's not pretend that she isn't average or sub-par in most aspects. Safety, that's her sole strength. The rest of the aspects of her game is either average, slightly above-average or actually sub-par (specifically her poor damage output, which I believe is the lowest in the history of the series?).

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Notably absent from your list of majors where Leixias have placed is EVO, by the way.

Maybe because none of the players I mentioned were present at EVO... Even so. Tira won EVO, and that doesn't prove anything in regards to tiers.

Every tournament is won by winning one match at a time. Have you ever been to any tournaments? If you haven't, I can't expect you to get this mentality.

 

[Kalas]

Did Hyrul play Leixia only at EBO? Because I think he plays other characters as well. I stand corrected then. Maybe I should've specified the "super"-majors with the top players from pretty much all regions, with huge pots, such as EVO. Notably absent from your list of majors where Leixias have placed is EVO, by the way.

EBO had players from Germany, France, UK, Poland. I don't know what else makes a tournament a "major".
If only EVO is THE super-major: ok. But going after EVO results we can only draw the conclusion that Tira is OP, Cervantes is ok and everyone else is crap.
I think Leixia players still do pretty well all around the world, and she's represented more often than better characters - not because of the tier list, but because of the players who play her are actually quite good.
I guess Leixia was definitely more prominent in the TOP 5 of this years' tournaments than characters like Algol, Yoshi or Hilde. So?

 

[Reptile]

- Shinji at CEO (3rd),
- Kalas at EBO(4th),
- Hyrul(Age of Truth) at EBO (2nd),
- & Myself at East Coast Throwdown and Summer Jam (both 5th). And 3rd/4th at various other tournaments.


And that's all you need in a tournament. Suddenly doesn't look so daunting anymore.

I'm also confident I could place high with her if she was my main character. Because she's good. And yes she has top tier guard damage.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

But let's not pretend that she isn't average or sub-par in most aspects. (specifically her poor damage output, which I believe is the lowest in the history of the series?).

LOL See SC4 Talim please.

You're complaining. That's all you're doing. We all have the same character to work with. No one's pretending the nerfs didn't happen.

 

[FallenAngelII]

Maybe because none of the players I mentioned were present at EVO...

Wasn't Shinji? Also, why weren't any of them present?

Every tournament is won by winning one match at a time. Have you ever been to any tournaments? If you haven't, I can't expect you to get this mentality.

I mean that they'll take a match or two off a set, but not entire sets. Or they win some sets. But in the end, Leixia never wins any majors, ever.

EBO had players from Germany, France, UK, Poland. I don't know what else makes a tournament a "major".

Top players from all regions of the U.S. Also, EBO was missing Keev for some reason. "Only" Kayane was there.

I think Leixia players still do pretty well all around the world, and she's represented more often than better characters - not because of the tier list, but because of the players who play her are actually quite good.

That's my point. She's only doing so well because some of the best players in the world are playing as her and she's overrespresented among good players in some regards. The reason why Hilde, Yoshimitsu and the like aren't represented more is that top players don't use them as much for some reason.


And yet, Leixia has never won a major.

 

[EyeofCalamity]

lol my post had nothing to do with tierwhores.....why play her if you mostly complain...And whenever someone replies to you, you make 3 long ass paragraphs or more about leixia sucking and how she struggles against the cast. Look at the other soul arena's do you see zwei,raph, aeon or any other chars complaining? no. They try to find new tech every single day and atleasts something to contribute. And all of that you wrote just now well thats your opinion....like "she isn't good anymore" go look at kalas or zero's leixia and see if she sucks which she doesn't. Post like this makes me not wanna even take you seriously and like reptile said awhile back your kind will be the one thats left behind haha epic.

But yeah just stop complaining (why did I say that? you're not gonna stop) and find the good stuff that leixia has going for her.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

I think Leixia players still do pretty well all around the world, and she's represented more often than better characters - not because of the tier list, but because of the players who play her are actually quite good.

It's official. Leixia players are the BEST players in the WORLD!

Hear that newalbert? Main Leixia. Become the BEST!

 

[Reptile]

But the thing is that you can't win tournaments with her, which is what I measure viability in

And that's why you can't be taken seriously. Because first of all, that logic is flawed, and furthermore, if you don't enter tournaments that sounds even more retarded. The people that used to go by this logic in the beginning all thought that NM was top tier. When in reality it was Keev (and Omega) being beasts at this game.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Re-opened for the OP.

 

[GreatOne1939]

Not trying to start anything, but I have to ask how can anyone speak on the "upper echelons" of play when they've never competed at anywhere near that level but still debate as if they're an authority on it? Like really how are you going to argue with Zero when he's been there in those settings and was highly successful? He's being modest and honestly can shut anything you say down just by saying "just look at me, I've been there". Then he can bring up his successes/near successes. His high placings in a venue full of those upper echelon players. If she's so unviable, how did he get to basically last round last hit with Woahhzz this past NEC? You gonna tell me Woahhzz lacks knowledge or that Zero is just that much more skilled than him? I watched that match among others and the way he played her was scary and I know for a fact people didn't wanna run into Zero and that Leixia.

You bring nothing but negativity and really you're dishonoring and disparaging all those people who put in the work to play with her properly or against her. Like she's a hopeless cause(unviable?)and people like Zack are wasting their time or all the work people like Xeph or Woahhzz or whoever has put in to learn actual anti- is idiotic because really all they have to do is mash.

Look I agree with you in that she may need a MINOR damage buff because yes, she has to work hard but its universally agreed upon that this would have to be done extremely carefully because she has such great options besides her damage.

So I request this, instead of coming here just spreading negativity and misinformation, please hit that training mode a little harder. Listen to what these guys who know what they are talking about. See what they're saying and why they're saying it. It's not out of frustration of having to read this stuff over the last 6months that I'm asking, nor the fact that constant negativity just invites strife. I ask for those who may be new coming into this series looking forward to playing the cute little Chinese girl but then all they see is some guy constantly saying how bad she is. This could lead to discouragement and really just starts people off in the wrong mindset.

Now, a good day to you all.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Any further replies to this viability discussion, I'm asking to be taken to PMs. I really don't mind answering/discussing this, but we don't need 3 more pages of arguments. Thank you.

 

[FallenAngelII]

That's weird, when I tried to reply an hour so ago, it said the thread had been closed. But now it isn't. I'll get back to you guys and reply later. Gotta go now.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

That's weird, when I tried to reply an hour so ago, it said the thread had been closed. But now it isn't. I'll get back to you guys and reply later. Gotta go now.

I re-opened the thread. But if you want to reply, do it in PMs for the reasons stated above.

 

[Age_of_Truth]

Did Hyrul play Leixia only at EBO?

No, but my record in the solo tournament with Leixia was 17W-0L, so maybe I shouldn't have switched :D

Apologies for the re-derailment, carry on.

P.S. Leixia OP btw

 

[Slade]

When did this change? The last patch? Didn't it use to be -14/-15?

They used to be -16 in 1.01 and were changed to be -18 with any former pushback they had removed. Note that this only applied to Pyrrha and Pyrrha Omega's 236Bs though. Elysium's version of Pyrrha Omega's 236B remains the same and Omega's 236236B was unaffected and is still -14 with pushback. DNS B is punishable by CE or 6KK at closest range though if I'm not mistaken.

Anyways, 22_88B+K is a surprisingly good counter to annoying 66As like Pyrrha's, Aeon's, or Ezio's. I've been meaning to test the properties and frames on it too once I get a controller.

 

[newalbert]

yes, this girl's damage output is a joke, but if i must hit twice than my opponent for a win, i just try my best to do it ...